Morning
There was a post recently discussing the option of taking SP as a safeguard just in case Betfair crashes during Pre race trading.
There was a difference of opinion as to whether SP was taken even if Betfair crashed prior to the race if I remember correctly
I always thought that SP was taken even if it crashed, but now Im having my doubts. Does anyone know for definite please?
Like lots of you on here I have large liabilities pre race and have a rules file that greens up just before the event.
I also leave my offset bets in and periodically click "Take SP".
I was wondering if it may be better to have a rule running in the background that starts say 3 mins out and fires every 5 secs to convert to SP on all unmatched bets. That way I would only be exposed for a maximum of 5 secs?
I would welcome any comments/suggestions as to how you do it?
(By the way, Im not always in front of my screen, so cant always hedge on Betdaq).
Thanks
regards
Peter
Taking SP - Safety Measure
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Peter
I cannot be definite and I am not sure Betfair can be definite either but I am sure they could easily fudge something together in the shape of an SP if it meant they made a few quid.
They must have clients who specifically ask for SP and therefore that requirement alone should compel them to ....errrr....fudge one together!
I cannot be definite and I am not sure Betfair can be definite either but I am sure they could easily fudge something together in the shape of an SP if it meant they made a few quid.
They must have clients who specifically ask for SP and therefore that requirement alone should compel them to ....errrr....fudge one together!
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Hi Peter, selecting Take SP is a good safety measure but it is limited as ever due to Betfair weighting the rules very heavily in their favour and imo they are unreasonably favourable to them. I took my case to IBAS with regards to TakeSP and having my bet voided a while back. Betfair settled in my favour in full before IBAS gave a ruling, but would only say it was as a goodwill gesture and not as an admission of any fault.
The rule that applies is:
"If the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled (i.e. after the event has started) and Betfair determines that a material event has occurred (this will generally mean that the event is not turned in-play), the SP will be determined based solely on SP bets (and ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets which are unmatched when Betfair suspends the relevant market), placed before the 'off'. This means that ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets matched after the off, will be made void and not included in the reconciliation process. In addition SP bets placed after the 'off' will be voided. However, if the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled but Betfair determines that no material event has occurred, all bets will stand."
The bit you want to study is:
http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Rules.and.Regulations/
Section 10.0 - Rules for Betfair Starting Price
It has still not been modified by Betfair which it should be in light of the points I highlighted in my case.
But even if modified I still feel that IBAS and any court would find in favour of my stand point that they should be forced to roll the market back to the actual off time and base the decisions on that as that is fair for all parties involved and not just Betfair.
The thread where my case is discussed is here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5784&hilit=ibas
As I was quitting I wasn't bothered if they closed my account, which to be fair they did not and did not threaten to do. I just wish others challenged them rather than bendover in such cases, that way progress could be made.
The main point from my case is that Betfair treat a modified bet as a new bet, so if you move the bet to stop it being matched and thus voided it will be voided anyway. If you don't move the bet and let it be matched it will be voided. So in my case I had no other potential outcome than to have my bet voided due to Betfair's shortcomings.
I would urge any one who bets/trades with substantial money to spend time understanding the Rules and Regs as they are very important. Also it was by studying these that I discovered something about how Betfair operates and from that worked out a way to profit substantially from a short coming by Betfair. So you never know although it can be hard work at times getting your head around some of the Rules and Regs it could lead to something profitable.
Hope that info helps.
The rule that applies is:
"If the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled (i.e. after the event has started) and Betfair determines that a material event has occurred (this will generally mean that the event is not turned in-play), the SP will be determined based solely on SP bets (and ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets which are unmatched when Betfair suspends the relevant market), placed before the 'off'. This means that ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets matched after the off, will be made void and not included in the reconciliation process. In addition SP bets placed after the 'off' will be voided. However, if the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled but Betfair determines that no material event has occurred, all bets will stand."
The bit you want to study is:
http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Rules.and.Regulations/
Section 10.0 - Rules for Betfair Starting Price
It has still not been modified by Betfair which it should be in light of the points I highlighted in my case.
But even if modified I still feel that IBAS and any court would find in favour of my stand point that they should be forced to roll the market back to the actual off time and base the decisions on that as that is fair for all parties involved and not just Betfair.
The thread where my case is discussed is here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5784&hilit=ibas
As I was quitting I wasn't bothered if they closed my account, which to be fair they did not and did not threaten to do. I just wish others challenged them rather than bendover in such cases, that way progress could be made.
The main point from my case is that Betfair treat a modified bet as a new bet, so if you move the bet to stop it being matched and thus voided it will be voided anyway. If you don't move the bet and let it be matched it will be voided. So in my case I had no other potential outcome than to have my bet voided due to Betfair's shortcomings.
I would urge any one who bets/trades with substantial money to spend time understanding the Rules and Regs as they are very important. Also it was by studying these that I discovered something about how Betfair operates and from that worked out a way to profit substantially from a short coming by Betfair. So you never know although it can be hard work at times getting your head around some of the Rules and Regs it could lead to something profitable.
Hope that info helps.
In principal take s.p seems a good safety measure and i do still use it, but over the years however i have been caught out by it at least 3 times.
The issue i have had is Ive had bets that were set to be taken at s.p, but they were matched after the official off time by another punter when Betfair turned in play late or not at all,
these bets were then voided to protect the other punter, leaving me up s**t creak, as obviously my bet was not included as part of the s.p calculation
I may well have been able to get my money back from Betfair if i pushed them, i don't know
,
but im actually up on the deal at the moment so havn't tried, these thing do tend to even out,
But that's not the point, it's not nice at the time having big liabilities and no knowing what to do
, a serious flaw in the system really.
The issue i have had is Ive had bets that were set to be taken at s.p, but they were matched after the official off time by another punter when Betfair turned in play late or not at all,
these bets were then voided to protect the other punter, leaving me up s**t creak, as obviously my bet was not included as part of the s.p calculation
I may well have been able to get my money back from Betfair if i pushed them, i don't know
, but im actually up on the deal at the moment so havn't tried, these thing do tend to even out,
But that's not the point, it's not nice at the time having big liabilities and no knowing what to do
, a serious flaw in the system really.Thanks Guys for the answers.
When I posted this, this morning, I thought t myself "Ive been doing this long enough now and I should know the answer to this question".
I do remember your post Andy and its nice to know that Betfair can be challenged.
Read and understand the rules; I think its an extremely good point actually. I know the basics (or think I do!), but given the amount of money we put through the markets, I agree, a very good understanding is required. I will make a point of going through them again.
I think in summary then, Take SP should be used where possible but it it is not 100% guaranteed (ie Better than nothing)
The paradox here is that just at the EXACT time you need the parachute is the EXACT time when the rules and regulations become open to interpretation
regards
Peter
When I posted this, this morning, I thought t myself "Ive been doing this long enough now and I should know the answer to this question".
I do remember your post Andy and its nice to know that Betfair can be challenged.
Read and understand the rules; I think its an extremely good point actually. I know the basics (or think I do!), but given the amount of money we put through the markets, I agree, a very good understanding is required. I will make a point of going through them again.
I think in summary then, Take SP should be used where possible but it it is not 100% guaranteed (ie Better than nothing)
The paradox here is that just at the EXACT time you need the parachute is the EXACT time when the rules and regulations become open to interpretation
regards
Peter