I've recently started a job in sales, and the parallels with trading are interesting.
I would say that, with both, it helps if you can:
- Avoid being swayed by greed or fear.
- Find techniques that work and execute them without hesitation.
- Be comfortable with the fact that you are playing a numbers game, and will fail regularly, with your successes more than paying for your failures.
- Carry on plugging away when you go through a barren patch.
- Go with what the market is telling you it wants, rather than with what you predict it will want.
It's interesting that some of the most successful traders in this forum (including Jolly and Euler) have a background in sales.
Any thoughts?
Jeff
Sales and trading
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podgymoore
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- Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:45 pm
Jeff is right.
I bought a book many years ago as a rookie salesman which introduced me to a Hawaaiian beauty called "Loa" - the Law Of Averages. Simply put, it means keep on calling - in our case trading - and if you are doing the right things more often than the wrong, LOA will reward you.
The most important thing was to keep going and not be put off by the strings of failures - or rejections in selling.
Thanks for reminding me to remember LOA
Podgy
I bought a book many years ago as a rookie salesman which introduced me to a Hawaaiian beauty called "Loa" - the Law Of Averages. Simply put, it means keep on calling - in our case trading - and if you are doing the right things more often than the wrong, LOA will reward you.
The most important thing was to keep going and not be put off by the strings of failures - or rejections in selling.
Thanks for reminding me to remember LOA
Podgy
You don't strike me as a salesperson though, Ferru
You seem to take offence to somebody excluding you from a forum thread - you need thicker skin that that in sales!
Also, at some stage you need to close a deal, I imagine you'd just want to talk to them all day
You seem to take offence to somebody excluding you from a forum thread - you need thicker skin that that in sales!
Also, at some stage you need to close a deal, I imagine you'd just want to talk to them all day
I think you can learn about losing the fear of rejection (losses) from sales. That was a massive step for me in making the transition from idiot to decent trader.
I never had an out and out sales role though, so I didn't really learn than from sales. But I saw the link when I was trying to understand why some people struggle with trading.
I never had an out and out sales role though, so I didn't really learn than from sales. But I saw the link when I was trying to understand why some people struggle with trading.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I like this scene for sales people.LeTiss 4pm wrote:You don't strike me as a salesperson though, Ferru
You seem to take offence to somebody excluding you from a forum thread - you need thicker skin that that in sales!
Also, at some stage you need to close a deal, I imagine you'd just want to talk to them all day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sYh0cn ... ata_player
I've worked with a lot of salespeople over the years, and I wouldn't trust the vast majority as far as I could throw them! 
Before any salespeople take offence, I realize that there are many honest salespeople out there, and maybe my experience isn't representative.
With regards to Le Tiss's points, as a former salesperson you will appreciate the importance of making a friend of the customer. One way to do that is to chat with them. But actually, my style is very concise - 'This is what I am offering, this is what it can do for you, would you like to go ahead?'.
As regards not having thick enough skin, to a point that's true, although I've had person after person hang up on me when cold calling, without being bothered by it.
With regards to Euler's point about fear, I can relate to that. One of the challenges I've had in previous sales jobs was being worried about causing offence by challenging customer objections, as I was worried about appearing pushy. Yes, I was afraid of getting into debates! I've also previously been a bit hesitant when going for the close, but fortunately these days I'm comfortable with it (possibly because I don't over-think it).
Jeff
Before any salespeople take offence, I realize that there are many honest salespeople out there, and maybe my experience isn't representative.With regards to Le Tiss's points, as a former salesperson you will appreciate the importance of making a friend of the customer. One way to do that is to chat with them. But actually, my style is very concise - 'This is what I am offering, this is what it can do for you, would you like to go ahead?'.
As regards not having thick enough skin, to a point that's true, although I've had person after person hang up on me when cold calling, without being bothered by it.
With regards to Euler's point about fear, I can relate to that. One of the challenges I've had in previous sales jobs was being worried about causing offence by challenging customer objections, as I was worried about appearing pushy. Yes, I was afraid of getting into debates!
I've also previously been a bit hesitant when going for the close, but fortunately these days I'm comfortable with it (possibly because I don't over-think it).Jeff
steven1976 wrote: I like this scene for sales people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sYh0cn ... ata_player
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
My best customer I told to stop wasting my time and hung the phone up on them 8 years ago. The next day they sent me an order for about 40,000$. I've also got a customer I spent 6 months chatting to on Skype chat before they ordered. We chatted about best holiday destinations in Thailand, life in Russia and vodka!
My point being, I got lucky with the first one but I learnt there are many ways to skin a cat.
One tip Jeff to consider instead of asking, would you like to go ahead, maybe consider it closed. Ask, how many....? What colour do you want.....etc.... If you ask would you like to buy something its probably natural instinct to say no.
If someone hangs up the phone on you then you have done a good job because they don't know how to say no.
I'm not really a natural sales person either but I'd love to here a few sales peoples tips as I find it fascinating how sales people close the deal.
My point being, I got lucky with the first one but I learnt there are many ways to skin a cat.
One tip Jeff to consider instead of asking, would you like to go ahead, maybe consider it closed. Ask, how many....? What colour do you want.....etc.... If you ask would you like to buy something its probably natural instinct to say no.
If someone hangs up the phone on you then you have done a good job because they don't know how to say no.
I'm not really a natural sales person either but I'd love to here a few sales peoples tips as I find it fascinating how sales people close the deal.
Thanks Steven.
I know there are many people who use the alternative close successfully, but it strikes me as a bit presumptuous.
I'm a big fan of the, 'If we can do x for you, will you go ahead?'. If it's something like 'If we can offer you the same or better service as your existing provider but save you money', it makes it hard to say no to.
I worked in insurance sales years ago, and my boss tried to get me, after I'd done my pitch, to click my pen, get out the order form, and say to the prospect 'What's your date of birth?', but I felt that was a bit too pushy!
What I used to do after my pitch - which I've since learned is a terrible way to close - is to say 'What do you think?'. The message it sends out IMHO is 'I'm not confident about asking you to part with money for this'. By contrast, in another job, my line was basically, 'So do you want to go ahead, yeah?', which seemed to work really well.
Jeff
I know there are many people who use the alternative close successfully, but it strikes me as a bit presumptuous.
I'm a big fan of the, 'If we can do x for you, will you go ahead?'. If it's something like 'If we can offer you the same or better service as your existing provider but save you money', it makes it hard to say no to.
I worked in insurance sales years ago, and my boss tried to get me, after I'd done my pitch, to click my pen, get out the order form, and say to the prospect 'What's your date of birth?', but I felt that was a bit too pushy!
What I used to do after my pitch - which I've since learned is a terrible way to close - is to say 'What do you think?'. The message it sends out IMHO is 'I'm not confident about asking you to part with money for this'. By contrast, in another job, my line was basically, 'So do you want to go ahead, yeah?', which seemed to work really well.
Jeff
steven1976 wrote: One tip Jeff to consider instead of asking, would you like to go ahead, maybe consider it closed. Ask, how many....? What colour do you want.....etc.... If you ask would you like to buy something its probably natural instinct to say no.
I used to know a guy who loved chatting the girls up, but hated the last part of trying to get them into bed, as he didn't want to look like a rat
I knew another guy who had a different tactic - if you go out and have a good time, followed by asking 100 girls for a shag.....1 of them will probably say 'yes'
I'll give you a gold star for guessing who got laid more often!
I knew another guy who had a different tactic - if you go out and have a good time, followed by asking 100 girls for a shag.....1 of them will probably say 'yes'
I'll give you a gold star for guessing who got laid more often!
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I can't believe you had such a bad strike rate letiss!
Yes, but I bet this was often the outcome!LeTiss 4pm wrote: I knew another guy who had a different tactic - if you go out and have a good time, followed by asking 100 girls for a shag.....1 of them will probably say 'yes'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTN-CVQuBR8
Jeff
Last edited by Iron on Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.