Please see below the responses Betfair gave to questions raised in their recent Q&A
Comments welcome.
Betfair Customer Services
Good evening and welcome to another Betfair Q&A session.
Thank you to those who have already submitted questions in advance of this session. As we’ve have had many questions on similar themes, you may find your exact question is not answered, although we will try to cover all topics.
Customer’s wishing to ask further questions during this session can email their questions to [email protected] or Tweet @Betfair using #AskBetfair
Are there any plans to modify the Premium Charge or preferably remove it altogether? If there is one thing that is holding back growth in your company it is this iniquitous penalty on winners. Why can Betfair management not see this?
There are currently no plans to remove the Premium Charge from Betfair. In 2013 we ran 0% Premium Charge promotions on La Liga and Rugby Union. The Rugby Union Promotion is on-going, and we will consider extending this promotion should it prove successful at increasing liquidity in Rugby Union markets.[/b]
Will the 'Rugby Union being exempt from Premium Charges' trial be extended past June?
The Rugby Union trial is currently under review and we will consider extending this promotion should it prove successful at increasing liquidity in Rugby Union markets; however no decision has yet been made to extend the trial. Should the trial be extended beyond June, this will be communicated to customers.
How do you work out cash out values?
Betfair pioneered cash out. This feature allows customers to reverse their bet in play in one click, locking in a fixed position irrespective of the final result. The cash out price is calculated using live prices from Betfair's Exchange. These prices are based on the market's expectations regarding the final result at that point in time, and will therefore differ from the prices available prior to the off. A full explanation of cash out and how it works is available in the help section, en.learning.betfair.com/app/answers/deta...
Premium Charge has had a £250k threshold for a number of years. Why can you not increase this every year by £25k or so?
The quarter of a million pounds net profits threshold is designed to ensure that customers have won a serious sum of money on Betfair before being subject to Premium Charges at higher rates. We believe that this is a fair cut off point. The idea of changing the threshold is interesting and something we will consider when reviewing premium charging in the future.
I understand that the PC is here to stay, but with declining liquidity (particularly in the in-play markets) wont there be some 'tweaking' to the PC to see if indeed liquidity could be stimulated? For example, why don't you just half the PC (just an example mind you) for major markets (eg. horse racing, World Cup, etc) for a while to see the results. Doing this on minor markets doesn't achieve anything of note.
We are always looking to improve exchange markets - our recent 0% Premium Charge promotions in La Liga and Rugby Union markets are aimed to see what effect removing Premium Charge can have. The La Liga trial was not successful and impact on Rugby Union is currently being evaluated. We may well look to extend this promotion or try reducing/removing Premium Charge in other markets in the future.
When you introduced the Premium Charge a significant amount of the justification (in the face of massive customer criticism) was that certain players were taking too much out of the system too quickly and as such were damaging the exchange "ecosystem". i.e. they were taking money out more quickly than you could provide it in the shape of new customers with new funds. So the promise was that the weekly grab would be used for marketing/advertising and bringing new customers to the EXCHANGE.
Can you confirm that this is still the strategy with regard to appropriation of funds collected via the Premium Charge because to this casual observer it appears that the money has all been spent on building a new Sportsbook and a never ending series of on-line amusement arcades. I am struggling to find any marketing or advertising that is focussed on the exchange so would be interested to hear what proportion of marketing budget is targeted at repairing the damage to the "Exchange ecosystem".
Betfair’s Marketing spend is split into:
1) Acquisition of new customers;
2) Moving customers between products; and
3) Retention of existing customers.
Acquisition: Our strategy remains unchanged: Acquire new customers on the Sportsbook via advertising etc and then to introduce those customers to the Exchange. This doesn’t stop customers joining Betfair via the exchange. Acquisition to directly the Exchange is performing well. However, for customers unfamiliar with the Exchange we have found it is more effective to acquire them using a product with which they are familiar (i.e. Sportsbook) and then introduce them to the Exchange once they have become a Betfair customer.
Sportsbook to Exchange: Each month a significant proportion of Sportsbook customers are educated on and incentivised to use the Exchange in some form or other. Some customers choose to continue there, others opt for the more recreational experience of the Sportsbook.
As part of our commitment to bringing liquidity to the Exchange, Betfair has introduced a Sportsbook feature called “Price Rush”. When a customer places a bet on our Sportsbook we automatically search to see if there is a better price available on the Exchange (adjusted for commission). If there is, then we immediately hedge the Sportsbook bet into the Exchange and provide the customer with the improved price. This mechanism provides better odds for our Sportsbook customers and importantly puts their liquidity into the Exchange. So as the Sportsbook grows, Exchange liquidity also grows. We believe it’s a win/win for both Sportsbook and Exchange customers.
Retention: Our Marketing CRM team is responsible for preventing churn and bringing lapsed customers back to the Exchange. Using targeted promotions numerous communications are sent weekly using a variety of channels including via email, Facebook, Twitter, SMS, push notification.
Betfair has invested many millions in Exchange customer retention in the last year and the results are the best we’ve seen in years.
Can you make the processing in- running delay zero seconds on all Sports, inc football (don't know what the purpose is in, delaying peoples bets?)
The purpose of a bet delay is to allow a level of protection for customers when betting In-Play from a variety of data and TV feeds. Firstly, it gives customer’s time to cancel their bets In-Play as events unfold should they wish to, rather than the bet being taken immediately. Secondly, (more importantly for Football) it allows our Market Operations team to suspend markets when goals, red cards, and penalties are awarded to protect customers from having their bets taken by customers with quicker feeds prior to a market suspension. We do issue a warning regarding TV delays in our market rules so customers are aware that the TV feed they are viewing could be delayed and in many cases are by 5-10 seconds.
Suspend the in- running on Horse racing when the 4th horse crosses the line, not just the winner as it is now, as people do have E/W in -running bets
It’s a good suggestion. However, there would be some additional complexity for us to manage this regarding photos and stewards enquiries for the place market and also TV pictures don’t always show the placed horses finish. If we feel there is sufficient demand we will explore the idea further but it would require some technical changes to our market management tools and processes so not something that could be implemented immediately.
Have an UNMANAGED football in-running market on the top two leagues
We do offer some Unmanaged In-Play Football matches (no suspensions for goals, red cards or penalties) for fixtures initially advertised to be Managed In-Play but where we no longer have a feed. However, our view is that having this for all fixtures for the top few leagues would split liquidity and be detrimental to the main Managed fixture.
At the last Q&A you said you would be monitoring whether demand would be sufficient to trial offering US racing in-play. What is the situation now please?
We currently don’t have the quality/speed of TV feeds to manage US Racing In-Play accurately. We are still investigating this and it remains a target for us. Watch this space.
The new site speed is still far slower than the old one. I often have to revert to the old site - why is this?
We are about to start the process of replacing the horse racing market pages on the new site with our new Exchange+ event view. The migration will be phased over the coming weeks based on customer location. Our original "Classic" site will continue to be available as an option in the top right-hand corner of the site by clicking 'Old site' and we have no intention of retiring this until all functionality is catered for on Exchange.
Exchange+ is the latest innovation from Betfair - a quicker, more responsive version of the Exchange. New improvements include an improved betslip experience, a dutching calculator in the betslip, comprehensive Timeform content built into the market view and an improved left-hand navigation menu. Full details can be seen at: betting.betfair.com/betfair-announcement...
Is Betfair planning on resuming their greyhound levy contributions and when will this happen and do you plan on adding more support in way of sponsorship or will you continue to use the sport free of charge?
As with horseracing, Betfair would like to see the funding of greyhound racing operate on a level playing field. At the moment this is not the case as Betfair’s main competitors, including William Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral and Paddy Power, do not contribute to the fund on their online business. Betfair remains open to discussing this with the greyhound industry and other betting operators. We continue to support the sport through substantial contributions to the Racing Post Greyhound TV channel to maximise the sport’s exposure free to air television.
Will you be bringing the Cypriot and Chinese football markets back next season on the exchange?
This will be evaluated as part of our end on season review post World Cup
When are the probs on Android app going to be sortedt? Why can't I disable Cashout from my account as I don't want it?
We are no longer actively working on the Android app due to lack of customer interest, we have however put a lot of effort into our mobile web app for the exchange, which is currently available at mes-beta.betfair.com/
Why is there no option on the sportsbook to back unnamed favs/2nd favs?
We don’t yet have this option yet but we are planning to release this in the near future.
I've asked for this for years and keep getting " we will look into it " but why not have corner odds and booking odds in play?
We intend to trial In-Play bookings and corners markets for the upcoming World Cup on the Exchange. These markets are already available in play on the Sportbook.
Why is the minimum stake £5 to view horse racing streams where other sites offer it for a lot less?
The minimum stake to watch Live Video via the Sportsbook is only £2 as opposed to £5. The reason why it’s £5 minimum via the Exchange, is due to it being a lower margin product and subsequently a higher cost to us to be able to offer it.
As far as I can see, Betfair sponsor lots of horseracing, but very little north of the border. Does Betfair plan on adding anymore horseracing sponsorship in Scotland?
Through our ‘Scottish Racing Series’ Betfair invests £50,000 annually in grassroots Horse Racing sponsorship in Scotland.
Multiple qualifying races are run throughout the year with a grand finale at each of the five Scottish racetracks (Ayr, Hamilton Pk, Kelso, Musselburgh, Perth)
These races cater for both National Hunt and Flat horses and form a crucial part of our investment in horseracing sponsorship.
When do you plan on resuming contributions to the Greyhound fund and to resume Greyhound competition sponsorship?
As with horseracing, Betfair would like to see the funding of greyhound racing operate on a level playing field. At the moment this is not the case as Betfair’s main competitors, including William Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral and Paddy Power, do not contribute to the fund on their online business. Betfair remains open to discussing this with the greyhound industry and other betting operators. We continue to support the sport through substantial contributions to the Racing Post Greyhound TV channel to maximise the sport’s exposure free to air television.
At the moment, there are no greyhound sponsorship deals in the pipeline. However as with all sports, we are always looking at commercial opportunities should they arise.
When do you plan on resuming contributions to the Greyhound fund and to resume Greyhound competition sponsorship?
As with horseracing, Betfair would like to see the funding of greyhound racing operate on a level playing field. At the moment this is not the case as Betfair’s main competitors, including William Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral and Paddy Power, do not contribute to the fund on their online business. Betfair remains open to discussing this with the greyhound industry and other betting operators. We continue to support the sport through substantial contributions to the Racing Post Greyhound TV channel to maximise the sport’s exposure free to air television.
At the moment, there are no greyhound sponsorship deals in the pipeline. However as with all sports, we are always looking at commercial opportunities should they arise.
Why has the previous deposit process on the Zoombet app been changed?
Firstly, just to clarify that Zoombet is still run by a third party, so this was changed by their choice and not ours. The process deposit page used by Zoombet connected to a Betfair deposit page that is now defunct, meaning that Zoombet had to change the address that the link connected to. This would be the reason for the change that was made. If customers are looking to deposit via Zoombet, they can go through the new Mobile Exchange site, which is located at http://www.betfair.com/exchange from a mobile browser.
Why is the minimum bet £2 rather than £1?
There are a number of factors ranging from commercial reasons to currency conversion whilst also to ensuring the stability of the site.
On the Beta site why is the horse-race list menu on the left composed of blue text on a grey background? As opposed to the white background on the usual site. I cannot see that this achieves anything but just makes it that much more difficult to read.
We are pleased to announce that the Beta site will change to blue on white background by the end of the month.
On a rather more minor point could you tone down the blue and pink background of the Back and Lay columns? They are a little garish.
The blue and pink colours were amended recently as a result of customer feedback, and on the new Beta pages, the shade will change to indicate if you have put the selection into the betslip.
Why not give punters a free RUK VIEWING CARD, then just activate it every month , as long as the punter trades £5000 a month, this might increase Liquidity (something needs to be done urgently)
Thank you for your feedback. Based on our renewed investment and partnership with RUK, we are in a position to provide complimentary RUK Anywhere subscriptions to our regular, valuable customers, who meet our streaming criteria. We’ll continue to actively contact such customers in the coming weeks to ascertain interest in the RUK Anywhere package.
Why does cashout ALWAYS give me less than if I cashed out manually using the same prices available? Are you profiting?
No, the difference will be down to commission.
I’m a small stakes Tote Placepot pool punter who bets mostly with perms. Somebody must have been asked, or you were allowed by Betfred, to take Placepot perms on here for 10p a line, so what's wrong with letting Betfair small stakes punters put on 10p lines for the Jackpot, instead of the minimum stake of 50p a line, which makes large perms too expensive for the likes of me.
The software must already be in place, and this can only increase the size of the pool as more small stakes punters enter the pool. Whenever the Jackpot rolls over, it tends to grow faster as more people have a go at it, especially the big syndicates. We know that Betfred want over a million pound pool to advertise it well, but even if only one person gets a £1,000,000 Jackpot up for a 10p stake, £900,000 of it still rolls over.
Many thanks for your feedback. I’m afraid our Tote minimum bet per line is dictated by the Tote’s rules. Our minimums therefore match the Tote’s online offering. We have however passed your question on to the Tote for feedback and will follow-up accordingly.
Does Betfair have anything in the pipeline to increase liquidity in greyhound racing and in running horseracing, as I have found these two areas have dropped drastically recently in liquidity?
Regarding Greyhound Racing, we have seen that volume increases dramatically for RPGTV meetings. We are pleased that more meetings are being televised, and we will continue to work with all of the stakeholders involved to see this number increase further. In addition, part of the reduction in greyhound in-running liquidity was caused by regulatory restrictions in one of our overseas jurisdictions where greyhound racing was very popular. We are working on a number of initiatives to allow those customers to once again bet into our greyhound markets.
In-running horseracing was pioneered by Betfair, and is something we are very passionate about. Liquidity levels in-running can vary substantially, especially for the less prominent meetings. For this reason we provide Betfair Live Video and Timeform Radio; enabling customers to choose exactly which races they want to follow in-play. Over the coming period we have plans to develop these services further, with the intention of supporting liquidity in these important markets.
You should have more interaction betting wise and introduce a frequent REQUEST A BET option for punters to gather odds
Customers can contact the Helpdesk at any time to request a new market be added to the Exchange, however it is a fact that sometimes these requests cannot be facilitated for market liquidity reasons. If you think we are wrong, you can always make a suggestion via @BetfairHelpdesk on Twitter. If enough customers express an interest, we will happily reconsider. Failing that, if there is a non-standard bet you would like to place you can again contact @BetfairHelpdesk, where they can ask our traders and they may be able to quote you a price directly.
Will we soon be able to watch live video from the exchanges through the iPad app?
Unfortunately we don’t currently have plans for live video on our exchange iPad app, we have however put a lot of effort into our mobile web app for the exchange, which is currently available at mes-beta.betfair.com/
Would it be possible to display the points scoring in in play tennis matches, as well as the game scoring (eg 15:30 40:40 etc.) this would be most helpful.
Point by point scoring via the site is something that we do regularly offer. However, for some events (for example this week’s French Open) the data is not available from our third party source for us to obtain and offer via the site.
I see you are currently developing the "My Bets" section on the web site. This could potentially be a very useful feature. Will you add the possibility of each user changing their default choice that appears when you choose "My Bets"? E.g. the bet type currently defaults to Sportsbook, which for me is never used.
This is a feature that we’re currently developing with a view to implementing before the end of 2014. This is part of a wider ‘Customer Preferences’ solution, whereby customers will be served the most relevant, personalised information available to them as default.
For those of us that play every day in nearly every race and generate quite a high turnover, is it not possible that If you meet certain criteria, to not have to match £5 to watch the LV? Bank Holiday's especially it's a nightmare?
Based on our renewed investment and partnership with RUK, we are in a position to provide complimentary RUK Anywhere subscriptions to our regular, valuable customers, who meet our streaming criteria. We’ll continue to actively contact such customers in the coming weeks to ascertain interest in the RUK Anywhere package. At The Races have something similar in the pipeline, which they hope to launch later this year and the intention is that we will also be able to offer this package to any customers who meet our regular streaming criteria.
My question is one that might have been asked before, but I do not know the answer; why does it take 2-5 days to clear withdrawn funds from Belfair, when all my other accounts take one or two?
Once you make a withdrawal from your Betfair account the funds leave your account instantly, but are held for a period of time to allow us to carry out internal checks (to protect both Betfair and our customers). The funds are then sent for processing by our banking partners, and at this point follow a standard flow. We state an SLA of 2 to 5 working days but the reality is that in the vast majority of cases the funds arrive within 2 to 3 days. In competitor analysis we have found that the majority of bookmakers also quote 2 to 5 days and the funds arrive within a similar time frame to us.
Are we any closer to improving the picture speed delay for ATR tracks on live video. We now know the technology is available where speeds could be as little as 1 second or less (4G, broadband fibre optics, raw satellite feeds, streamed straight from the course to home users using either of the mentioned). So is it now just a question of the broadcasters not wanting to allow betfair access to faster pictures?
Reducing latency on live video streaming is something which is of paramount importance to Betfair, so that we can provide as level a playing field as possible for our in-running horse racing product. Thanks to our commercial relationship with At The Races, we are continuously working together regarding options to reduce this latency, although this won’t be a quick-fix and we hope to be able to update Betfair customers on progress later this year.
On the Saturday 10th May 2014 Betfair suffered severe disruption. The community forum service page confirmed there was a problem at 15.16pm ( about 40 minutes after the disruption started ) and was reported as fixed at 7.29am Sunday morning. I expected there would be a post explaining why there was such a major disruption for so long, but saw nothing on that forum.
A few days later, on the Betfair Developer Forum, it was explained that a hardware failure had occurred on the network, and the extent of the disruption was reported as: "Saturday's issue affected API-NG, the Betfair website (Sportsbook & Exchange), as well as all gaming products." As the issues did not affect the current API, version 6, I am amazed that Betfair did not class the disruption as an Outage and disable all betting functionality.
The Betfair Customer Commitment states for Unplanned Outages:
1. How will Betfair maintain a level playing field around outages?
One of your key concerns was that during outages some customers are able to place bets through channels such as Betfair Mobile and our API, potentially gaining an unfair advantage over customers betting via the website.
In the event of an unplanned Sports Exchange outage, we will disable the betting functionality across all channels, ensuring a level playing field. However, should Betfair Mobile and/or our API go down, you will be able to continue betting on the Sports Exchange and this will not constitute an outage.
Placing and canceling bets via the website and API-NG was a nightmare. with long delays being experienced, and confusion over whether bets were actually accepted. In no way could these problems be classed as minor site issues. To think website users were waiting several seconds to get bets placed, if successful, and API 6.0 users were getting instant responses, then this was clearly not a level playing field.
Please explain why the disruption was not classed as an Outage and all betting functionality disabled.
During the incident we made the call to allow betting to continue as most customers were able to place bets unaffected, although we recognise that some experienced a slower than normal experience whilst doing so especially when placing Sportsbook bets.
The technical investigations to determine the root cause were complex and lengthy, which meant we were not able to provide definite estimates for when the issue would be resolved, meaning we did not have much news to communicate to customers other than “we still have a problem”.
The “Customer Charter” that you refer to is no longer something that we refer to in regard to site issues/outages. We do however of course still consider the “level playing field” issue as part of our incident management process.
Why do you charge for PayPal deposits via debit card when these types of deposits are FREE with all other bookmakers?
We incur this fee from PayPal when customers deposit via this method. For a free of charge payment method, we’d suggest using a UK registered Debit Card directly. Full details of available payment methods can be found at payments.betfair.com
Are any new USA horse racing tracks coming to exchange or in any talks abt new tracks?
Betfair offers an extensive range of US tracks on the Exchange, and we are currently speaking with other racecourses interested in being with us. We hope that this will mean an even wider offering in the near future. Watch this space…!
Is there any chance of your company replacing TSE as the forum moderators? They seem to have a very funny agenda regarding posts, someone posts something that is not even offensive gets a life ban yet other posters continue with libellous posts (ie. accusing others of being aliases) yet there posts just get removed and they are not sanctioned further.
The Betfair Forum is intended for legitimate comment, constructive discussion and the sharing of opinions on sport, gaming and other matters. We have a responsibility to try and ensure that the Community is a pleasant area for all our users to enjoy.
The Forum is not actively managed but there is a ‘report’ feature for threads and individual posts where customers alert the moderation team to any inappropriate content.
We want customers make full use of the Community, but there are some things we just can’t allow. Light hearted “banter” is to be expected within a forum environment but Bullying and harassment are not what the Betfair forum is about and will not be tolerated. Our Terms and Conditions explain the type of content that is not permitted – and we may take action against anyone who breach these Terms.
The "other sports" forum is basically only used for cycling, and some of the threads on there are amongst the best anywhere on the forum. Please would it be possible create a cycling section of the forum, so that other users would be able to locate the cycling-related threads more easily?
The forum categories have recently been condensed down a few months ago, with some removed due to the lack of activity within those categories. However, we’re always open to adding new categories if there is not only interest, but they generate a good level of activity within the forum. We’d be happy to add Cycling as its own category for a trial period, and should the activity be of an acceptable level, we’d be happy for it to remain as a permanent fixture.
Why do Scorer markets go suspended when the games kicks off, Other bookies leave them on?
We will have in play next goalscorer markets enabled and ready for the start of the World Cup on the Sportsbook.
We do offer First Goalscorer markets In-Play on the exchange as it’s our most liquid scorer market but if there is sufficient demand we would consider expanding. We will be trialing Next Goalscorer markets in play throughout the World Cup.
Is the Live View on the forum a ploy to get people to login so they might be more likely to bet? If not, can you make standard view the default?
Our forum data shows that customers who use the live view function are three times more likely to create and reply to posts, as it is a far more engaging experience than the standard view. Unless we see a change which indicates the Live View is no longer effective in this way, the Live View will remain as the current default.
After the Vincent/Arif cricket match-fixing charges, could you elaborate on what Betfair does to help protect punters from fixing?
Betfair recognise that the integrity of our markets is crucial to our customers. For this reason, we have a unique Integrity Team that is dedicated to monitoring betting activity on Betfair’s sports betting products, to ensure that markets are being used in a fair manner. Where the Integrity Team suspect any account holder is seeking to gain an unfair advantage over other customers, robust action is taken including account closures. Betfair has information sharing agreements (MOU’s) with 58 Sports Governing Bodies (SGB’s) around the world. These agreements enable Betfair to work hand in hand with the SGB’s and relevant gambling regulators to fully investigate any instances of unusual or suspicious betting patterns.
What percentage of your users make a profit each year?
From memory, c.25% of our customers are profitable after commission is deducted.
It is clear that the number of football matches on live video is now way behind other bookmakers in terms of the number of matches covered. Has Betfair reduced the contract with the 3rd party to simply save money?
We continually review the content we show on live video and remove competitions that don’t prove to be popular or overlap with matches available on TV. Unfortunately rights holders restrict the player size and quality that we can show. Our aim however is to have something on live video around the clock wherever possible.
Why can't you have an E/w type bet on football accas? For example offer 1/4 odds if on leg let's you down?
We have our “Acca Insurance” football promotions on the sportsbook that you can opt in to, and get your stakes on match odds and both teams to score multiples returned if one leg lets you down. For more details please go to the promotions tabs on either of the app or the website.
Why not reduce your commission for some sports events like Matchbook and other exchanges do?
In 2013 we ran 0% Premium Charge promotions on La Liga and Rugby Union. The Rugby Union Promotion is on-going, and we will consider extending this promotion should it prove successful at increasing liquidity in Rugby Union markets.
Do you think it might be a good idea to make an Asian person on to the board, who knows the Asian markets better?
Thank you for your question and sorry we managed to miss it in the Q&A last night. We value a broad range of experience from our board directors which includes a spread of geographic, functional and industry expertise. Two of our directors have in their careers led successful, profitable businesses in Asia. The current regulatory environment in certain Asian countries makes expansion in the region more difficult than other places in the world. However, it is somewhere that we would like to do more so we are also investing in people below board level to help us build relationships with local partners.
Can we have markets on the Hockey World Cup 2015?
If you are referring to the 2014 field hockey World Cup, we will be offering markets for both men's and women's. The markets should be available on site by tomorrow evening.
Is it ok to make lots of cricket bets from Chandigarh? Can you make more markets on the ICL, not just the IPL?
We offer a number of domestic Indian cricket, but the ICL ended back in 2009 as it lacked the support of the Board of Control for Cricket in India and International Cricket Council.
Thanks to everyone who submitted a question. This sort of feedback is incredibly helpful to us as we’re always working hard to improve things for our customers.
We really appreciate you taking the time to join us and look forward to hosting another session towards the end of the year.
Betfair Q&A
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maycontainnuts
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:58 pm
Summary of the Q&A
Customer, this is really bad are you going to change it
Betfair, no infact we couldn't be less interested in your views
Customer, this is really bad are you going to change it
Betfair, no infact we couldn't be less interested in your views
Please consider this in the future.Will we soon be able to watch live video from the exchanges through the iPad app?
Unfortunately we don’t currently have plans for live video on our exchange iPad app, we have however put a lot of effort into our mobile web app for the exchange, which is currently available at mes-beta.betfair.com/
Extracts
It must be fairly obvious by now that the ‘new website’ is not very popular so what are your plans for it (and the old site) in the future. Also why don’t you have a user vote as to which is the one to keep?
Having taken feedback from customers on the “new site” we have made significant changes and have been rolling out Exchange+ to address the issues raised. We encourage you to try Exchange+ now (available on Racing and Football market views). Exchange+ is being built to offer a better experience than the old Exchange site. For example, we have rolled out one second price updates to racing and will be extending this to football in the next few weeks. You can try the new site now by visiting: www.betfair.com/exchange/horseracing/#/n... You can feedback directly to the Product team by using the Exchange+ feedback forum: betfair1.uservoice.com/forums/263937-exc...
In July 2013, Betfair started a trial to remove transaction charges, with the intention to review your pricing structure. What was the result of this trial?
When pricing up an in play football event, where you may have a lot of sub markets for each event, you don't get very far by 1000 bets/hour, as the odds are changing continuously. And for those of us involved in more than one match at once, this becomes a severe restriction.
It seems like you intend for players that have a large turnover to have more than 1000 bets/hour, as you offset the charge against commission paid during the day. However, this offset is quite difficult to relate to, as you don't know in advance how much commission you will pay for a given day. At least, it would be better if you instead offset the charge against Betfair points. Also, you must have a huge turnover for this offset to be of any significance.
I hope you also look at the long term effects of transaction charges, as I believe the most important short term effect of the charge is higher spreads, and the long term effect of higher spreads probably is fewer customers.
When we trialled relaxing the transaction charge in 2013 we saw the number of placed/edited bets increase, but not the number of matched bets. This increased load creates additional costs for us at no benefit for our customers.
Transaction charge is offset against commission generated* (not commission paid), which means that even if you lose all bets in a given day your transaction charges will still be offset. Commission generated is less volatile than commission paid, so this should help you when factoring transaction charges in to your activity.
We don’t want transaction charge to be a limiting factor for customers that are trying to get bets matched efficiently, which is why it is offset against commission.
*Commission Generated =(Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where implied commission = market losses x 3%
I was very surprised you did not go ‘in running’ on the Breeders Cup Horse Racing markets last year – will you be doing so this year? or is this another example of dumbing down the exchange offer.
This was entirely to protect our customers. Unfortunately, the latency of our live video offering was too severe to be able to offer the Breeders’ Cup in-running, which is also why we are unable to offer other US races in-running as it stands. We are currently scoping out the possibility of working with a low-latency streaming provider in the US, which, if successful, will enable us to turn back-on in-running on US races, including the Breeders’ Cup.
(I don't believe this, Betfair US are based 1/2 hour from the track)
There are rumours about a change the premium charge. Is a change likely to happen and if so, when? What sorts of changes are likely to take place?
We currently have no plans to change the premium charge.
Will Betfair ever advertise the Exchange in the same capacity as they do with the Sportsbook?
We advertise the Sportsbook as it is a much more effective product to attract new customers, often through sign up bonuses and enhanced prices. Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange pool even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further as we go forward.
Betfair used to say "winners are welcome". Is that now not the case?
Winners continue to be very much welcome at Betfair and for some of our winning customers, the Exchange is one of the few places where they can reliably get a bet on. The Exchange also continues to sustain pricing advantages that give customers a much better chance of winning in the long run. Our Sportsbook is obviously a different product, but it is very competitively priced and we enjoy the healthy competition we get with customers.
Many side markets in various sports have seen liquidity plummet, even falling to £0 being matched or offered in some cases. This is the result of the introduction of the Premium Charge and Sportsbook. Apart from cross market cross matching and Price Rush, what will you be doing to fix this?
We are excited about the prospect of cross market cross matching, it will be rolled out in some football events shortly and we’ll be looking to expand that to other sports once we are happy with the performance. This should have a dramatic impact the liquidity in on a number of ‘side markets’ and we would welcome your feedback once it is live. Price Rush has also had a positive impact in terms of matching recreational customers bets in the Exchange and we will be continuing to roll this out across more markets in the future. We do have some other initiatives in the pipeline to improve liquidity in ‘side markets’ and will look to share those plans with our customers when they are closer to release.
If you dare to have a good run on the Sportsbook your account will be heavily restricted very quickly. Are you not just like any other bookmaker now?
Stake factoring is part of any Sportsbook's risk management system, including our own. However, with Betfair you can easily switch to the Exchange where no account is ever restricted.
Betfair seems to be putting all its focus on growing the Sportsbook part of the company, and this seems to be at the expense of the exchange. Is the exchange still at the heart of the company's future plans? If so, will it start advertising the exchange again and encouraging new customers to use it?
The Exchange remains very much at the heart of everything we do. Volumes are healthy, it continues to offer pricing advantages on significant numbers of markets and it’s trading functionality is at the centre of the exciting wider sports platform we now operate.
As you say, we have recently promoted our Sportsbook, which is giving us new ways to acquire recreational customers. The Sportsbook gives customers a simpler interface that some understand more easily, but in time we would hope the many of these will start start to see the benefits of the Exchange as well.
Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if it is better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further going forward.
Us customers have the understanding that PC is needed for Betfair to break-even on successful players as it cost money to advertise, pay employers, etc. to run Betfair.
20% is the break-even point, which is fair enough, then at 40% PC Betfair are making a good profit on each person paying 40% PC (20% total profit). Isn't it now time that the 50% and 60% are scrapped?
I never see in-running or the Exchange advertised on TV, the racing post etc. so the money you take is not being used for what it is meant for. All the advertising is for the Sportsbook. None of the Sportsbook money that is put back into the Exchange goes into the in-running markets as it is all pre-race money. This seems very unfair to me. When will we see a revision of the PC charge to make it fairer for everyone?
Shouldn't Betfair be making more use of the money generated by PC, for such projects as quicker fairer picture speeds across all sports on their Live Video service, more advertising of the Exchange and not only the Sportsbook, etc. instead of using the PC charge merely as a way to make more profit for Betfair?
For all the bad will and negativity the PC has created in the last few years amongst its users (PC payers and non-PC payers) and non-users since its introduction, does Betfair feel it has been a good thing for growing the company?
Firstly, congratulations on your winnings – as a 50% premium charge customer you are one of the most profitable punters out there. We currently have no plans to change the 50% and 60% rates.
The Exchange is a still at the heart of Betfair. We advertise the Sportsbook as it is a much more effective product to attract new customers, often through sign up bonuses and enhanced prices. Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if it is better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further going forward.
While we understand that Premium Charge was not well received by some customers, it has done its part in making the exchange sustainable which is a good thing for all users.
What are you doing to replace the webpage - form.tennis.betfair.com (live scores and stats)?
We switched off the Tennis live scores and stats micro-site during the back end of the previous season (2014) with the view of re-building a new and improved site. Considering the old site was fairly dated we will be re-building the entire site from scratch and are looking to incorporate new functionality. Therefore at this point any feedback on the previous site and suggestions for improvements would be welcomed as we work on what the new site should look like. Release dates are yet to be confirmed, but we endeavour to re-launch the site at some point this year.
Why is the higher rate charged on the basis of lifetime P&L, rather than on hitting annual targets? It means you get stuck on the higher rate regardless of how you do in the future and punishes those that have been with the site a long time. It seems a strange way to treat loyal customers.
Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat. We use your lifetime net P&L (after all charges) to measure how successful you have been on Betfair. Annual performance goes up and down so it isn’t a good indicator of just how well you have done.
Are you going to take steps to improve exchange liquidity?
We have two main initiatives underway which will help liquidity on the Exchange. The first, called cross-market cross-matching, is currently being trialled and will be rolled out in coming months. The second is a feature on the Sportsbook called "Price Rush" which offers Sportsbook customers the Exchange price if it’s better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange pool even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of our Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further as we go forward.
We do have some other initiatives in the pipeline to improve liquidity in ‘side markets’ and will look to share those plans with our customers when they are closer to release.
Does your sports operation consider the bets placed by your successful exchange users when deciding whether to take the bet or not (from other punters)?
Access to live bet data at a customer level is restricted and employees are strictly forbidden from using any such data for either personal or commercial gain. This practice is known as front running and is a gross misconduct offence. So the answer is no.
What is the decision making process behind Price Rush with deciding whether or not to match the bet on the exchange:
i) is it matched only on the basis of whether or not a profit/breakeven situation will arise for Betfair?
ii) or do you also consider the intelligence of the active users on the exchange i.e., if the bet you are considering to price rush onto the exchange has queued bets that oppose this bet by "successful players" would you rather take on the risk as per your sports operation?
iii) anything else you consider?
We currently operate Price Rush on markets across seven sports (football, tennis, horse racing, golf, basketball, ice hockey and American football).
On a market where Price Rush is active, the bet is matched into the Exchange when the price available (after commission payable is factored in) is better than the price offered on the Sportsbook.
We do not take into account any details of the customers providing the Exchange liquidity in the process.
For more information, please go to: www.betfair.com/sport/price-rush
There was an announcement recently with regards to cross market matching E.g., in a football match, placing a bid bet on the home team would also appear in the asian handicap market for a back of home-0.5 etc...
i) When is this going live (will there be any way to determine which markets this is live)?
ii) using the example above, how will offset commission be calculated if you have other bets in these 2 markets? I.e., you have a winning back bet in the AH home-0.5 and in the "match odds market" you have say a smaller losing back bet on the draw?
iii) how will the queuing mechanism work across markets? I.e., will waiting bets form one timestamped queue per odds increment or will there be 2 or more queues? Is it more complicated than this?
We continue to trial this new functionality on specific football matches. If the trial is successful the intention is to scale it up during the next 2-3 months. We’ve made no changes to the way that commission is calculated as part of the liquidity pooling work, so offset commission will be unchanged. There are no changes to the way bets are matched either: the first bet (by timestamp) at a given point on the odds ladder will be matched first as it is today. The liquidity pool just recognises that certain outcomes (e.g. AH home 0-line) appear in more than one market (e.g. Match Odds Home win) and reflects the liquidity on those outcomes accordingly.
Have you considered charging less for price making than taking, to boost the markets?
We have considered this as an option but there is a danger that we create a more complex pricing structure that isn’t clearly understood. Remember customers can both make and take prices in the same market.
Since the launch of the Sportsbook there have been times when customers were unable to cash out leading to an online backlash against Betfair. Why not use this as an opportunity to educate customers and direct them to hedge on the exchange.
Cash Out is a very popular feature amongst our sports betting users. We send frequent Cash Out users receive marketing communications about the benefits of using the exchange. We believe this is the most effective way to educate our sports betting customers about the exchange.
Since the Australian Open Tennis 2014 when a company run by ex-Betfair employees was exposed as courtsiding, what steps (if any) has Betfair taken to stop courtsiders operating on this site?
This is a complex subject as we cannot stop people from betting from an event, or from transmitting information from that event for others to use for betting purposes, and often customers use multiples strategies within the same account so any one particular behaviour is hard to spot. However, we have updated our terms and conditions to contain the following provisions that all of our customers must agree to when betting with us:
You undertake to use our services for legitimate betting purposes only. In particular you undertake not to
i. engage in any activity which has the purpose or effect of causing damage to or in any way hindering our business operations or generating or increasing a liability on us, including without limitation any tax, levy or duty collecting authority;
ii. bet on, or manipulate any individual Market in a manner which we believe has the purpose or effect of adversely affecting the integrity of the Exchange or any Market;
iii. transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so; and/ or
iv. procure or otherwise arrange, whether directly or indirectly, for a third party to transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so.
We also have a prominent warning on our website that says other Betfair customers may have access to data that is faster and/or more accurate than the data shown on the Betfair site.
The Market Information available within the Rules button of every market also says:
Customers should be aware that:
Transmissions described as “live” by some broadcasters may actually be delayed
The extent of any such delay may vary, depending on the set-up through which they are receiving pictures or data.
Have you considered changing the premium charge period from a week to a month?
This is something we’ve talked about – the problem with charging premium charge monthly is that the monthly payments will be larger, which means that you will need to keep a higher account balance to cover the charge at the end of each month which we understand many customers are not keen to do.
Are you comfortable that no ex employees have been able to obtain copies of the ex Dbase so as to analyse successful customers?
Yes, we are comfortable
It must be fairly obvious by now that the ‘new website’ is not very popular so what are your plans for it (and the old site) in the future. Also why don’t you have a user vote as to which is the one to keep?
Having taken feedback from customers on the “new site” we have made significant changes and have been rolling out Exchange+ to address the issues raised. We encourage you to try Exchange+ now (available on Racing and Football market views). Exchange+ is being built to offer a better experience than the old Exchange site. For example, we have rolled out one second price updates to racing and will be extending this to football in the next few weeks. You can try the new site now by visiting: www.betfair.com/exchange/horseracing/#/n... You can feedback directly to the Product team by using the Exchange+ feedback forum: betfair1.uservoice.com/forums/263937-exc...
In July 2013, Betfair started a trial to remove transaction charges, with the intention to review your pricing structure. What was the result of this trial?
When pricing up an in play football event, where you may have a lot of sub markets for each event, you don't get very far by 1000 bets/hour, as the odds are changing continuously. And for those of us involved in more than one match at once, this becomes a severe restriction.
It seems like you intend for players that have a large turnover to have more than 1000 bets/hour, as you offset the charge against commission paid during the day. However, this offset is quite difficult to relate to, as you don't know in advance how much commission you will pay for a given day. At least, it would be better if you instead offset the charge against Betfair points. Also, you must have a huge turnover for this offset to be of any significance.
I hope you also look at the long term effects of transaction charges, as I believe the most important short term effect of the charge is higher spreads, and the long term effect of higher spreads probably is fewer customers.
When we trialled relaxing the transaction charge in 2013 we saw the number of placed/edited bets increase, but not the number of matched bets. This increased load creates additional costs for us at no benefit for our customers.
Transaction charge is offset against commission generated* (not commission paid), which means that even if you lose all bets in a given day your transaction charges will still be offset. Commission generated is less volatile than commission paid, so this should help you when factoring transaction charges in to your activity.
We don’t want transaction charge to be a limiting factor for customers that are trying to get bets matched efficiently, which is why it is offset against commission.
*Commission Generated =(Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where implied commission = market losses x 3%
I was very surprised you did not go ‘in running’ on the Breeders Cup Horse Racing markets last year – will you be doing so this year? or is this another example of dumbing down the exchange offer.
This was entirely to protect our customers. Unfortunately, the latency of our live video offering was too severe to be able to offer the Breeders’ Cup in-running, which is also why we are unable to offer other US races in-running as it stands. We are currently scoping out the possibility of working with a low-latency streaming provider in the US, which, if successful, will enable us to turn back-on in-running on US races, including the Breeders’ Cup.
(I don't believe this, Betfair US are based 1/2 hour from the track)
There are rumours about a change the premium charge. Is a change likely to happen and if so, when? What sorts of changes are likely to take place?
We currently have no plans to change the premium charge.
Will Betfair ever advertise the Exchange in the same capacity as they do with the Sportsbook?
We advertise the Sportsbook as it is a much more effective product to attract new customers, often through sign up bonuses and enhanced prices. Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange pool even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further as we go forward.
Betfair used to say "winners are welcome". Is that now not the case?
Winners continue to be very much welcome at Betfair and for some of our winning customers, the Exchange is one of the few places where they can reliably get a bet on. The Exchange also continues to sustain pricing advantages that give customers a much better chance of winning in the long run. Our Sportsbook is obviously a different product, but it is very competitively priced and we enjoy the healthy competition we get with customers.
Many side markets in various sports have seen liquidity plummet, even falling to £0 being matched or offered in some cases. This is the result of the introduction of the Premium Charge and Sportsbook. Apart from cross market cross matching and Price Rush, what will you be doing to fix this?
We are excited about the prospect of cross market cross matching, it will be rolled out in some football events shortly and we’ll be looking to expand that to other sports once we are happy with the performance. This should have a dramatic impact the liquidity in on a number of ‘side markets’ and we would welcome your feedback once it is live. Price Rush has also had a positive impact in terms of matching recreational customers bets in the Exchange and we will be continuing to roll this out across more markets in the future. We do have some other initiatives in the pipeline to improve liquidity in ‘side markets’ and will look to share those plans with our customers when they are closer to release.
If you dare to have a good run on the Sportsbook your account will be heavily restricted very quickly. Are you not just like any other bookmaker now?
Stake factoring is part of any Sportsbook's risk management system, including our own. However, with Betfair you can easily switch to the Exchange where no account is ever restricted.
Betfair seems to be putting all its focus on growing the Sportsbook part of the company, and this seems to be at the expense of the exchange. Is the exchange still at the heart of the company's future plans? If so, will it start advertising the exchange again and encouraging new customers to use it?
The Exchange remains very much at the heart of everything we do. Volumes are healthy, it continues to offer pricing advantages on significant numbers of markets and it’s trading functionality is at the centre of the exciting wider sports platform we now operate.
As you say, we have recently promoted our Sportsbook, which is giving us new ways to acquire recreational customers. The Sportsbook gives customers a simpler interface that some understand more easily, but in time we would hope the many of these will start start to see the benefits of the Exchange as well.
Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if it is better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further going forward.
Us customers have the understanding that PC is needed for Betfair to break-even on successful players as it cost money to advertise, pay employers, etc. to run Betfair.
20% is the break-even point, which is fair enough, then at 40% PC Betfair are making a good profit on each person paying 40% PC (20% total profit). Isn't it now time that the 50% and 60% are scrapped?
I never see in-running or the Exchange advertised on TV, the racing post etc. so the money you take is not being used for what it is meant for. All the advertising is for the Sportsbook. None of the Sportsbook money that is put back into the Exchange goes into the in-running markets as it is all pre-race money. This seems very unfair to me. When will we see a revision of the PC charge to make it fairer for everyone?
Shouldn't Betfair be making more use of the money generated by PC, for such projects as quicker fairer picture speeds across all sports on their Live Video service, more advertising of the Exchange and not only the Sportsbook, etc. instead of using the PC charge merely as a way to make more profit for Betfair?
For all the bad will and negativity the PC has created in the last few years amongst its users (PC payers and non-PC payers) and non-users since its introduction, does Betfair feel it has been a good thing for growing the company?
Firstly, congratulations on your winnings – as a 50% premium charge customer you are one of the most profitable punters out there. We currently have no plans to change the 50% and 60% rates.
The Exchange is a still at the heart of Betfair. We advertise the Sportsbook as it is a much more effective product to attract new customers, often through sign up bonuses and enhanced prices. Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns. For customers who remain betting on the Sportsbook we have introduced a feature called "Price Rush" which offers them the Exchange price if it is better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further going forward.
While we understand that Premium Charge was not well received by some customers, it has done its part in making the exchange sustainable which is a good thing for all users.
What are you doing to replace the webpage - form.tennis.betfair.com (live scores and stats)?
We switched off the Tennis live scores and stats micro-site during the back end of the previous season (2014) with the view of re-building a new and improved site. Considering the old site was fairly dated we will be re-building the entire site from scratch and are looking to incorporate new functionality. Therefore at this point any feedback on the previous site and suggestions for improvements would be welcomed as we work on what the new site should look like. Release dates are yet to be confirmed, but we endeavour to re-launch the site at some point this year.
Why is the higher rate charged on the basis of lifetime P&L, rather than on hitting annual targets? It means you get stuck on the higher rate regardless of how you do in the future and punishes those that have been with the site a long time. It seems a strange way to treat loyal customers.
Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat. We use your lifetime net P&L (after all charges) to measure how successful you have been on Betfair. Annual performance goes up and down so it isn’t a good indicator of just how well you have done.
Are you going to take steps to improve exchange liquidity?
We have two main initiatives underway which will help liquidity on the Exchange. The first, called cross-market cross-matching, is currently being trialled and will be rolled out in coming months. The second is a feature on the Sportsbook called "Price Rush" which offers Sportsbook customers the Exchange price if it’s better than the Sportsbook. We then simultaneously place that bet into the Exchange so the liquidity ends up in the Exchange pool even if the customer bets on the Sportsbook. Currently each month around 30% of our Sportsbook customers receive a Price Rush (i.e. effectively bet into the Exchange) and we will expand that coverage further as we go forward.
We do have some other initiatives in the pipeline to improve liquidity in ‘side markets’ and will look to share those plans with our customers when they are closer to release.
Does your sports operation consider the bets placed by your successful exchange users when deciding whether to take the bet or not (from other punters)?
Access to live bet data at a customer level is restricted and employees are strictly forbidden from using any such data for either personal or commercial gain. This practice is known as front running and is a gross misconduct offence. So the answer is no.
What is the decision making process behind Price Rush with deciding whether or not to match the bet on the exchange:
i) is it matched only on the basis of whether or not a profit/breakeven situation will arise for Betfair?
ii) or do you also consider the intelligence of the active users on the exchange i.e., if the bet you are considering to price rush onto the exchange has queued bets that oppose this bet by "successful players" would you rather take on the risk as per your sports operation?
iii) anything else you consider?
We currently operate Price Rush on markets across seven sports (football, tennis, horse racing, golf, basketball, ice hockey and American football).
On a market where Price Rush is active, the bet is matched into the Exchange when the price available (after commission payable is factored in) is better than the price offered on the Sportsbook.
We do not take into account any details of the customers providing the Exchange liquidity in the process.
For more information, please go to: www.betfair.com/sport/price-rush
There was an announcement recently with regards to cross market matching E.g., in a football match, placing a bid bet on the home team would also appear in the asian handicap market for a back of home-0.5 etc...
i) When is this going live (will there be any way to determine which markets this is live)?
ii) using the example above, how will offset commission be calculated if you have other bets in these 2 markets? I.e., you have a winning back bet in the AH home-0.5 and in the "match odds market" you have say a smaller losing back bet on the draw?
iii) how will the queuing mechanism work across markets? I.e., will waiting bets form one timestamped queue per odds increment or will there be 2 or more queues? Is it more complicated than this?
We continue to trial this new functionality on specific football matches. If the trial is successful the intention is to scale it up during the next 2-3 months. We’ve made no changes to the way that commission is calculated as part of the liquidity pooling work, so offset commission will be unchanged. There are no changes to the way bets are matched either: the first bet (by timestamp) at a given point on the odds ladder will be matched first as it is today. The liquidity pool just recognises that certain outcomes (e.g. AH home 0-line) appear in more than one market (e.g. Match Odds Home win) and reflects the liquidity on those outcomes accordingly.
Have you considered charging less for price making than taking, to boost the markets?
We have considered this as an option but there is a danger that we create a more complex pricing structure that isn’t clearly understood. Remember customers can both make and take prices in the same market.
Since the launch of the Sportsbook there have been times when customers were unable to cash out leading to an online backlash against Betfair. Why not use this as an opportunity to educate customers and direct them to hedge on the exchange.
Cash Out is a very popular feature amongst our sports betting users. We send frequent Cash Out users receive marketing communications about the benefits of using the exchange. We believe this is the most effective way to educate our sports betting customers about the exchange.
Since the Australian Open Tennis 2014 when a company run by ex-Betfair employees was exposed as courtsiding, what steps (if any) has Betfair taken to stop courtsiders operating on this site?
This is a complex subject as we cannot stop people from betting from an event, or from transmitting information from that event for others to use for betting purposes, and often customers use multiples strategies within the same account so any one particular behaviour is hard to spot. However, we have updated our terms and conditions to contain the following provisions that all of our customers must agree to when betting with us:
You undertake to use our services for legitimate betting purposes only. In particular you undertake not to
i. engage in any activity which has the purpose or effect of causing damage to or in any way hindering our business operations or generating or increasing a liability on us, including without limitation any tax, levy or duty collecting authority;
ii. bet on, or manipulate any individual Market in a manner which we believe has the purpose or effect of adversely affecting the integrity of the Exchange or any Market;
iii. transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so; and/ or
iv. procure or otherwise arrange, whether directly or indirectly, for a third party to transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so.
We also have a prominent warning on our website that says other Betfair customers may have access to data that is faster and/or more accurate than the data shown on the Betfair site.
The Market Information available within the Rules button of every market also says:
Customers should be aware that:
Transmissions described as “live” by some broadcasters may actually be delayed
The extent of any such delay may vary, depending on the set-up through which they are receiving pictures or data.
Have you considered changing the premium charge period from a week to a month?
This is something we’ve talked about – the problem with charging premium charge monthly is that the monthly payments will be larger, which means that you will need to keep a higher account balance to cover the charge at the end of each month which we understand many customers are not keen to do.
Are you comfortable that no ex employees have been able to obtain copies of the ex Dbase so as to analyse successful customers?
Yes, we are comfortable
iii. transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so; and/ or
iv. procure or otherwise arrange, whether directly or indirectly, for a third party to transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so.
Looks like they have taken steps to stop the courtsiders. I saw on the BF wiki that Steve High himself was attempting to censor the subject. Good news for all except him.
iv. procure or otherwise arrange, whether directly or indirectly, for a third party to transmit information that assists in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest from any territory where it is illegal to do so.
Looks like they have taken steps to stop the courtsiders. I saw on the BF wiki that Steve High himself was attempting to censor the subject. Good news for all except him.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Im more of a free for all. If you allow people to travel to courtside so be it. In play delay just allows bf to pull bets or take bets as they are being submitted to benefit them, in my point of view. I doubt they are looking out for traders, and punters dont care.
I was curious about their one second delay on golf, seems pointless.
When I was watching the golf this year phoned up another trader and I was eight seconds ahead of the action. But curiously, as steven suggested, prices were moving well ahead of even the live action.
Somebody could step up to hit the ball and the button must have been pressed as they hit the ball or slightly before.
When I was watching the golf this year phoned up another trader and I was eight seconds ahead of the action. But curiously, as steven suggested, prices were moving well ahead of even the live action.
Somebody could step up to hit the ball and the button must have been pressed as they hit the ball or slightly before.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I never realised the courtsiders were ex-employees of BF. I wonder if there was a bit more to it than just simple courtsiding.
They were computer guys so it does make you wonder 
More details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betfair
More details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betfair