Been trying to trade now for 2 years, not part time but full time. I can honestly say this is the most stressful part of my life and I'm thinking of knocking it on the head.Some days I feel like I have mastered it, but things don't go to plan and I just end up changing strategy. I know how the market moves and I've learned a great deal and done courses etc but trading in the period when the last race ends is so hard. One race your up the next your down and things move so fast. I've tried outsiders, favs and everything in between. I've had success in the 15 minute period before the race starts and then leaving my trade run into the last few minutes but I don't know if it's just a fluke as most traders seem to trade in the last few minutes and I just want to do this right if I'm going to devote so much of my life to it. I get how the prices move more liquid just before the off and how each price moves with another etc but it just seems like its a lucky dip during that period.
I'm giving it another week and I'll have to pack it in I'm just gutted and furious that I haven't made a living after the amount of hours I put in.
I never write on forums etc I always do my own research and I have gone through years of backdated price movement data and before I do leave it all I want to know if it is only worth trading last few minutes pre race and if anyone else actually makes a living trading before that period. It feels like I'm the only one and if so then I'm obviously not doing it right and I give up!
Does anybody have success trading within the period before the end of the last race, say 15 minutes out as an entry point?
I think this is where a lot of new traders get so confused
Hope someone can help
Thanks
Steven
How long before you give it all up?
Hi Marko
Thanks for the reply. It's not as easy as that mate it's a long story. I've always had my own businesses so it's not the pressure that's the problem it's the fact at the time I'm wasting. It's been years now and I'm not a dull bloke it just seems so random at times, maybe I'm trading too many races.
If I can trade before all the maddness in the last few minutes then I can make it work as thats when my best results have come, just want to see if there are others who do it.
I've tried trend trading, swing trading and am useless at scalping but it's going with the trend I'm easiest with
Thanks for the reply. It's not as easy as that mate it's a long story. I've always had my own businesses so it's not the pressure that's the problem it's the fact at the time I'm wasting. It's been years now and I'm not a dull bloke it just seems so random at times, maybe I'm trading too many races.
If I can trade before all the maddness in the last few minutes then I can make it work as thats when my best results have come, just want to see if there are others who do it.
I've tried trend trading, swing trading and am useless at scalping but it's going with the trend I'm easiest with
Yep trading does take up alot of time, i can only make small amounts of money and i don't do horse racing anymore mostly football, i'v went through my losing streak and it all stoped when i started to trade less and just go for trades that looked like a good thing.
People like Peter webb can see good trades nearly all the time that's why they make good money, but even they had to start at the bootom and work there way up.
People like Peter webb can see good trades nearly all the time that's why they make good money, but even they had to start at the bootom and work there way up.
People easily forget that, I was hopeless at first. The screen looked like a random number generator, but it sings to me now.marko236 wrote:People like Peter webb can see good trades nearly all the time that's why they make good money, but even they had to start at the bootom and work there way up.
Many many people have had the same experience with the horse racing close to the off I'm afraid mate. Thousands of hours and thousands of pounds spent and no result. I've been trying for over 4 years and never got consistent results on the UK horses. Jeff (Ferru123) is another well-known prolific poster on here in the same boat.
I wouldn't give it away altogether, you should probably just be much more selective on which races you choose to trade. The big feature races and top quality meets are much easier to trade and punt IMHO. Also try Australian races.
Case in point in how much easier the feature races are: The Caulfield Cup in Australia right now. Lovely clear steamer - the front-runner 'Junoob' right now...will be a smooth steady steamer all the way to the off and In-Play.
I wouldn't give it away altogether, you should probably just be much more selective on which races you choose to trade. The big feature races and top quality meets are much easier to trade and punt IMHO. Also try Australian races.
Case in point in how much easier the feature races are: The Caulfield Cup in Australia right now. Lovely clear steamer - the front-runner 'Junoob' right now...will be a smooth steady steamer all the way to the off and In-Play.
Just to answer your basic question - yes, I am making good money similar way - initiating trades 20 - 30 minutes before off and let them go until actual off with take SP as last safety net. Fully automated process (the software is not Bet Angel for that). Trading All UK/IRE races this way but of course some extra logic is there...
David
David
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I guess if you are doing it full time for a living, the only answer can be what standard of living it is achieving for you which is dictated by your p/l. It won't lie to you.
People fail all the time and there is nothing wrong with failure in my opinion, but knowing when something is not profitable is sometimes hard to accept and we waste a lot of time trying to prove a point to ourselves and others when we could move onto the next project. Its probably the fact that you have ran profitable businesses (guessing) that works against you as you expect success and money to come easy?
People fail all the time and there is nothing wrong with failure in my opinion, but knowing when something is not profitable is sometimes hard to accept and we waste a lot of time trying to prove a point to ourselves and others when we could move onto the next project. Its probably the fact that you have ran profitable businesses (guessing) that works against you as you expect success and money to come easy?
Maybe try and work a little bit as well, it might ease the pressure of trying to get the results you want, as well as improving your state of mind. But as you say, 2 years and still not making a profit, you've got to think if it's best to abandon this project or start from scratch (whether that be Practice Mode or reducing your stake).
I do understand what HH is saying about the reluctance to spent time doing this for little return.
I think Automation is the way to go these days. Ive tried manual trading on and off for the past seven years and my automation always seems to be so much better.
Why spend all day Saturday sitting in front of the screen when you can be out with the kids?
The new API brings new opportunities. You can use lower stakes, so much easier (and less risky) to test new strategies.
I was running a new strategy yesterday and got a few screen shots (inc this one).
If this runs all day and doesnt produce a winner, they its not a problem (Ill prob lose less that £10 or £15 quid all day). However its HIGHLY likely that it will win on one of the 30 or 40 races..and you can see the risk/reward ratio..
yesterday I had a big win on a horse called Order of service which will easily cover a months worth of bets going forward
My advice is to give automation a try? It never gets bored and will sit there throwing bets in all day long
Its a nice feeling at the end of the day to check your P&L
Regards
Peter
I think Automation is the way to go these days. Ive tried manual trading on and off for the past seven years and my automation always seems to be so much better.
Why spend all day Saturday sitting in front of the screen when you can be out with the kids?
The new API brings new opportunities. You can use lower stakes, so much easier (and less risky) to test new strategies.
I was running a new strategy yesterday and got a few screen shots (inc this one).
If this runs all day and doesnt produce a winner, they its not a problem (Ill prob lose less that £10 or £15 quid all day). However its HIGHLY likely that it will win on one of the 30 or 40 races..and you can see the risk/reward ratio..
yesterday I had a big win on a horse called Order of service which will easily cover a months worth of bets going forward
My advice is to give automation a try? It never gets bored and will sit there throwing bets in all day long
Its a nice feeling at the end of the day to check your P&L
Regards
Peter
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Isn't an edge is simply you having a better than 50/50 chance of knowing which way the odds will go? So you have an 'edge' over the standard 50/50 chance.
Following trends works well for me and I achieve this more than 50% of the time, only when I trade before the last few minutes though. Once the money floods in then things just go all over the place and what you think is going to happen quite often doesn't
Following trends works well for me and I achieve this more than 50% of the time, only when I trade before the last few minutes though. Once the money floods in then things just go all over the place and what you think is going to happen quite often doesn't
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Peter T SYD
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:21 am
I have been around bookies for the last 20 years and I have seen them go for a year without making money and they hang in there.
My suggestion is this ,
- Dont do it full time
- Stick with large turnover races and also races with form
- Try to open up accounts with bookies and apply the free bets with also your other trading
- Look at your monthly profit and set targets - 1k +
- Dont trade in play.
I prefer to do it this way as if I have a losing day I just look at the month and the time spent on trading and if I am satisfied I continue. No different to shares or other business activity.
My suggestion is this ,
- Dont do it full time
- Stick with large turnover races and also races with form
- Try to open up accounts with bookies and apply the free bets with also your other trading
- Look at your monthly profit and set targets - 1k +
- Dont trade in play.
I prefer to do it this way as if I have a losing day I just look at the month and the time spent on trading and if I am satisfied I continue. No different to shares or other business activity.