Trading What I see !?

[wearthefoxhat]

First race -£4.25 took my time and carefully selected the race setup which to me looked like a breakout move, and it did to start with was moving nicely, then 2 mins to go it reversed very sharply. Im thinking i should have traded it the other way...?

Sounds as though it was a retracement. (maybe the other traders greening up their positions)

[spreadbetting]

Few grand on dogs, blimey what's the secret?

I'm sure he'll comment but.... Experience.

And the fact there's about 720 dogs a day... Plus the same again in Aus, then maybe throw in the place markets too. With 3000 selections a day to look at, things add up.

No big secret, like Shaun says plenty of races, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

[Derek27]

Yes, however I'm sure in one of Peters videos he says not knowing about horses gives you an advantage as you are not emotionally attached...

The knowledge you have of the sport you're trading isn't as important as how you use (or misuse) it. Believing a horse is value may be relevant if you have reason to believe money will come for it, other times it will be irrelevant.

[spreadbetting]

First race -£4.25 took my time and carefully selected the race setup which to me looked like a breakout move, and it did to start with was moving nicely, then 2 mins to go it reversed very sharply. Im thinking i should have traded it the other way...?

You need to learn to jump out of bad positions as soon as possible, you're just wasting trading time if you sit hoping for poor trades to return. That time could be better spent entering new trades or looking for other opportunities.

[goat68]

First race -£4.25 took my time and carefully selected the race setup which to me looked like a breakout move, and it did to start with was moving nicely, then 2 mins to go it reversed very sharply. Im thinking i should have traded it the other way...?

You need to learn to jump out of bad positions as soon as possible, you're just wasting trading time if you sit hoping for poor trades to return. That time could be better spent entering new trades or looking for other opportunities.

That's what I did I jumped out, it took about 10 seconds to go from +£2 to -£4

[ShaunWhite]

First race -£4.25 took my time and carefully selected the race setup which to me looked like a breakout move, and it did to start with was moving nicely, then 2 mins to go it reversed very sharply. Im thinking i should have traded it the other way...?

When it moved 'nicely' to start with, you could have taken some of your profit, maybe taking half your stake out, and moved the breakeven line away from you.

[goat68]

Ok let's try this, my last trade of the day York 16:10
I'm looking at continuation back on fav around 3.5, 2nd fav trending out, 3rdfav slightly out/range

[ShaunWhite]

First race -£4.25 took my time and carefully selected the race setup which to me looked like a breakout move, and it did to start with was moving nicely, then 2 mins to go it reversed very sharply. Im thinking i should have traded it the other way...?

You need to learn to jump out of bad positions as soon as possible, you're just wasting trading time if you sit hoping for poor trades to return. That time could be better spent entering new trades or looking for other opportunities.

That's what I did I jumped out, it took about 10 seconds to go from +£2 to -£4

10 seconds is an enterity! What happened, did you go and make a cup of tea?

And why are you still talking about cash amounts? £2 or £4 doesn't mean anything, it's only ticks that matter. When you're trading properly and managing your position by adding and reducing your liability as you go along then these cash amounts will be even more meaningless.

[ruthlessimon]

York 16:10

I'm looking at continuation back on fav

Be more liberal imo.

I've also got that race marked. But unlike you, I dunno whether I'm gonna back, lay, (or do nothing) on that fav yet.

[goat68]

Backed at 3
Out for 47p profit!
Reversed on me

[ShaunWhite]

Ok let's try this, my last trade of the day York 16:10
I'm looking at continuation back on fav around 3.5, 2nd fav trending out, 3rdfav slightly out/range

If it moves a few ticks your way to start with, then ffs secure some profit by reducing your position and get that breakeven line to move away a bit ! Being wrong long term doesn't make it a loss if you're even a little bit right in the short term. Eg back for £10, lay £5 when you've got a few ticks and then the pressure comes off because you can at least break even becuase that point moves futher away. Trading isn't £10 in and £10 out it's about managing your position in line with your confidence eg +2, +2 -2, +2 +2 +2, -2 etc....and a hedge at the end if you need one.
.

[wearthefoxhat]

Another "Acorns" example. Fontwell 4.20

trade.jpg

odds.jpg

[ruthlessimon]

Backed at 3
Out for 47p profit!
Reversed on me

Well done for getting out; cos that woulda been nasty!!

The 16:10 was a "no trade" for me. I nearly layed the fav (I luv smilers ), but there was a fair bit of two way trade as it drifted back up through 3.0. Too much for me personally, hence the swerve.

[jamesg46]

I tried to give an example of what Shaun is saying earlier on in the thread.

I use a Servant for backing and laying to help with speed and reduce manual effort. I will enter 4 back or lay bets into the market using servant context for staking.

So my stake is £200 it will enter 4 x 25% of Servant context and offset each one, the first by 1 tick, the 2nd by 2 ticks, the 3rd by 3 ticks & the 4th by 4 ticks.

I use this Servant in the following way, if a horse is drifting I will look to enter for the break through whole numbers, so if I was laying for a break through 4 my offsets would be 25% of the stake at 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 & 4.4 with each one matched it gives me a little more breathing room and reduces the downside, im then looking for the break through 4.5 using the exact same method & if I'm at this point then my first trade through 4 gives me a buffer for my trade through 4.5 and then again through 5 etc.

What I'm trying to avoid is predicting where a price will move before its moved, instead im trying to get involved in something that is moving whilst managing my downside. I tried to chase a full move for years and it drove me insane, its much easier for me to take profits and reduce risk looking to take advantage of part of the drift or backing action.

Bet Angel makes it so simple, I use 3 keys to perform this type of trade,

Alt 1 (Lay Servant)
Alt 2 (Back Servant)
Alt A (Green all selections) also exits on negative trades.

There is are plenty of strategies knocking about and strategies vary depending on market conditions, a horse that is being backed, doesn't always follow the same pattern of behaviour or go through the same price points, its using the right tactic within that strategy that fits the market that you're in at that moment.

Find one setup and master that, then move on to find either variations of it that suit other market conditions or other strategies entirely.

Peter can flip flop through markets doing backflips. His toolbox has a tool for most, if not all market conditions. Where as you and i have to slowly collect the tools, find out where they are used and then practice our craft with them. The learning process is pretty much no diffedent to any other profession, it takes time, practice & education in the subject & with each trade that you take gives experience.

Dont focus on the outcome, focus on the process.

[goat68]

Backed at 3
Out for 47p profit!
Reversed on me

Well done for getting out; cos that woulda been nasty!!

The 16:10 was a "no trade" for me. I nearly layed the fav (I luv smilers ), but there was a fair bit of two way trade as it drifted back up through 3.0. Too much for me personally, hence the swerve.

I'm interested since I was watching this, what do you mean by two way trade? Layers pushing up followed by backers down, and repeat?