Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Derek27]

I'm pretty sure it could be contained if everybody did their bit!

I'm pretty sure I could have 100% strike rate if everyone did their bit and pushed the market the way I want it to go and left some liquidity for my exit

Sorry Alex, but that is a stupid and irrelevant analogy. Trading is a competition where everybody else is your opponent, whereas battling Covid-19 involves the whole nation working together for the same cause, so it's not comparable.

Most people understand how dangerous it is and do their best to contain it, others understand but are selfish and put themselves first, and some are so stupid they don't believe it exists.

[alexmr2]

I'm pretty sure it could be contained if everybody did their bit!

I'm pretty sure I could have 100% strike rate if everyone did their bit and pushed the market the way I want it to go and left some liquidity for my exit

Sorry Alex, but that is a stupid and irrelevant analogy. Trading is a competition where everybody else is your opponent, whereas battling Covid-19 involves the whole nation working together for the same cause, so it's not comparable.

Both are unrealistic to expect will work and neither can be solved by blaming others.

Arguably people are competing in an economic war just now and some are benefiting from this situation. Billionaires are increasing their net worth whilst most working-middle class are losing out. When small businesses begin folding and bailing out, bigger corporations are aquiring that market share.

I honestly believe it's becoming more obvious that this is all about money, not saving lives and increasing the population, but most people are blinded by emotions as intended by our leaders

[alexmr2]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this is sane?

Taking the word of the mainsteam media and Government as the only truth despite obvious exaguration, propaganda and statements with no factual basing.
People refusing to do their own research, listen to unbiased journalists/scientists or look at things from a logical perspective such as 2020 death totals being only slightly above average vs the last 30 years.
NHS shutting down Nightingales and ignoring applications from backup/retired NHS staff rather than running both simultaneously with diagnosing and treatments for bigger killers than Covid still going ahead.
Restrictions which limit healthy exercise and no talk of nutrition.
The mission everyone has chosen to accept, the mad rush to create the elixir of life silver bullet to allow 85 year old care home residents to live longer.
Shaming and hoping fellow humans get fined or locked up for doing natural activities such as meeting family, driving to go for a walk and not wearing a plastic bag over their respiratory system.
Trying to force a basically untested drug injection on everyone, even millions of healthy people who have no reason to have it and there being no guarantee it evens works.
Censoring and criminalising the truth such as people videoing hospitals wards or protesting.

Remember the 388 figure. In the UK 388 out of millions of under 60s with no known underlying health conditions died WITH Covid, so in the worst case the survival rate was at least 99.993% which I imagine is just a normal rate under any circumstances

[sionascaig]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this is sane?

..... such as 2020 death totals being only slightly above average vs the last 30 years.

Actually last time I looked at this it was current mortality was at same rate as 20yrs ago - things must have gotten a lot worse!

The point is mortality has improved and there are now a vast number of "excess death" that otherwise would not be occurring. So your point is we should accept the excess deaths for a year (or two) to live "normally".

Not sure how that squares with knowing you could be the one responsible for killing your granny or your pals granny all for the sake of getting a couple of beers down the pub with your pals.

Certainly agree with your point of not trusting the current government regarding handling of the crisis - a complete shambles. Still open mouthed that they still have not introduced mandatory chks and quarantine for travellers - in fact giving exemptions if you are wealthy / important enough...

[TraderFred]

We were lucky round here first time round with very few cases in my area, wasn’t very much in November either. Can sort of see how people can think it’s not that serious or is being overplayed when you don’t know anybody affected. Especially if they spend all day trawling through their online echo chamber confirming their beliefs, reading short sharp reaffirming messages all day (literally brain washing themselves). If you read something enough, you will start to believe it.

However, this time round we have not been so lucky. It’s now rife round here, and I know of lots of people who have it/have had it. Currently have two close family members struggling with it.

It’s frustrating reading all the conspiracy bullshit about empty hospitals and how it is all a big scam being overplayed just so the rich can get richer etc. I hope the people peddling all this never get old or ill.

[alexmr2]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this is sane?

..... such as 2020 death totals being only slightly above average vs the last 30 years.

Actually last time I looked at this it was current mortality was at same rate as 20yrs ago - things must have gotten a lot worse!

The point is mortality has improved and there are now a vast number of "excess death" that otherwise would not be occurring. So your point is we should accept the excess deaths for a year (or two) to live "normally".

Not sure how that squares with knowing you could be the one responsible for killing your granny or your pals granny all for the sake of getting a couple of beers down the pub with your pals.

Was this a % or numerical because 20 years ago the UK population was 10 million less, so there being the same deaths today with 10 million extra population would be an improvement. From all the data available in every country worldwide 12 months in, I do not see a "vast number of excess deaths", I see a variance of 2-3% going up and doing over the years and always regressing to the mean

I'm surprised people still favour the emotionally charged and unquantifiable "you are killing grannies" social disapproval technique outlined in Sage's behavioural psychologist documents, rather than solid statistics and logic

[Dallas]

ONS have just released last years data on excess deaths from all causes, it was up 91k (or 15%) on the 5yr average
The 5 year average is a simple but pretty go indicator as it takes into account population growth and medical advancements

It is of course the single biggest increase on any year since WW2

[jamesg46]

We were lucky round here first time round with very few cases in my area, wasn’t very much in November either. Can sort of see how people can think it’s not that serious or is being overplayed when you don’t know anybody affected. Especially if they spend all day trawling through their online echo chamber confirming their beliefs, reading short sharp reaffirming messages all day (literally brain washing themselves). If you read something enough, you will start to believe it.

However, this time round we have not been so lucky. It’s now rife round here, and I know of lots of people who have it/have had it. Currently have two close family members struggling with it.

It’s frustrating reading all the conspiracy bullshit about empty hospitals and how it is all a big scam being overplayed just so the rich can get richer etc. I hope the people peddling all this never get old or ill.

You're hoping people don't get old or ill... I'm afraid you'll be disappointed to realise that getting old is part of lifes cycle & getting ill at some point is very likely.

The empty hospital wasn't a conspiracy, it was empty & she was arrested for recording it... that wasn't make believe... the reasons behind it being empty I'm not sure but as others have pointed out there was probably a genuine reason.

People will always have apposing views on everything, given that propaganda exists through msm it's not surprising that scepticism is a thing but debates/conversations between people will usually centre the conversation towards what is factual. One of the biggest problems with that is some are quick to mock or shout down the scepticism & the usual technique is to attack the character of those that are sceptical, leading to unnecessary noise and a general bad taste between people.

Without questions or debate we wouldn't have change, be that for better decisions or worse ones. Just accepting something & the reasoning behind it isn't in some people's nature, including those who make decisions which is why we seem to flip flop in and out of guidelines and have U turns every other week.

[alexmr2]

We were lucky round here first time round with very few cases in my area, wasn’t very much in November either. Can sort of see how people can think it’s not that serious or is being overplayed when you don’t know anybody affected. Especially if they spend all day trawling through their online echo chamber confirming their beliefs, reading short sharp reaffirming messages all day (literally brain washing themselves). If you read something enough, you will start to believe it.

It’s frustrating reading all the conspiracy bullshit about empty hospitals and how it is all a big scam being overplayed just so the rich can get richer etc. I hope the people peddling all this never get old or ill.

I would say this is more relevant to those who listen to the BBC echo chamber. Why not have them show the real data instead of saying the say old statements with no evidence to back them up?

"staying at home saves lives" - 40+ scientific papers showing weak correlation between death rates and restrictions
"wearing masks saves lives" as above
"protect the NHS" from those who shut down the Nightingale hospitals and have staff on furlough/aren't accepting backup/retired staff

It seems as though critical thinking and intellectucal debate is always instantly dismissed as conspiracy theory for anything which was not said on the news, even if said by lots of real scientists

I think hearing about people who have had the virus or who have died is purely sentimental and unquantifiable. People have been getting viruses and feeling bad for thousands of years and there's a high chance that you will "know of" one of the 600,000 people that die every year in the UK under normal circumstances

[Dallas]

ONS have just released last years data on excess deaths from all causes, it was up 91k (or 15%) on the 5yr average
The 5 year average is a simple but pretty go indicator as it takes into account population growth and medical advancements

It is of course the single biggest increase on any year since WW2

Sky news already created a page to chart it all
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-how ... s-12185275

[alexmr2]

ONS have just released last years data on excess deaths from all causes, it was up 91k (or 15%) on the 5yr average
The 5 year average is a simple but pretty go indicator as it takes into account population growth and medical advancements

It is of course the single biggest increase on any year since WW2

Sky news already created a page to chart it all
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-how ... s-12185275

Looks like it's testing the resistance level but not broke through and took out my stoploss... yet

[Kai]

It would be helpful if Nick Handjob could clarify how far you can walk, run, cycle, scooter, skateboard and drive!

I've made a grave mistake by googling Nick Handjob to try and find out who you were talking about

[jamesg46]

It would be helpful if Nick Handjob could clarify how far you can walk, run, cycle, scooter, skateboard and drive!

I've made a grave mistake by googling Nick Handjob to try and find out who you were talking about

[sionascaig]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this is sane?

..... such as 2020 death totals being only slightly above average vs the last 30 years.

Actually last time I looked at this it was current mortality was at same rate as 20yrs ago - things must have gotten a lot worse!

The point is mortality has improved and there are now a vast number of "excess death" that otherwise would not be occurring. So your point is we should accept the excess deaths for a year (or two) to live "normally".

Not sure how that squares with knowing you could be the one responsible for killing your granny or your pals granny all for the sake of getting a couple of beers down the pub with your pals.

Was this a % or numerical because 20 years ago the UK population was 10 million less, so there being the same deaths today with 10 million extra population would be an improvement. From all the data available in every country worldwide 12 months in, I do not see a "vast number of excess deaths", I see a variance of 2-3% going up and doing over the years and always regressing to the mean

I'm surprised people still favour the emotionally charged and unquantifiable "you are killing grannies" social disapproval technique outlined in Sage's behavioural psychologist documents, rather than solid statistics and logic

Its the mortality "rate" - the ones used to calculate the probability of you dying by age. So in effect a curve by age that get higher the older you are.

When cars were 1st introduced in UK the speed limit was 3mp in towns and 5mph in the country as the gov at the time were concerned by excess deaths. Now, as a society, we accept higher speed limits and the associated car related deaths for convenience.

If the social disapproval technique is deployed on the back of good statistics all fine by me... (drunk driving probably a good example of that).

[TraderFred]

I suppose everyone is going to have their own beliefs and are entitled to believe whatever or whoever they like. It’s not like trading where you get to find out what your opinions are worth. So people can spout whatever they like and no one will ever be able to prove for or against.

Jamesg46 litters this forum with links to conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated claims from dodgy sources. Usually with the caveat that he hopes it’s not true, or there may be another explanation, or he doesn’t believe it, but finds it interesting.

Why post it? You did it all over the US election thread, and now all over this one. If you don’t believe it, don’t post it. No idea how successful you are or are not at trading, though when you post on the horse racing thread you come across as completely clueless and almost always missing the point to me. Maybe I’m wrong though, maybe you’re also a really good trader as well as contrarian thinker and virologist.

I don’t know what to make of Alexmr2. I find it impossible to differentiate between satire, trolling, being on a wind up, or actually having those beliefs. Not sure if he is for real or not. Though if I was him, I’d be worrying more about the state of my betfair account than whether or not the bbc are spreading fake news about a fake pandemic and inflating the number of excess deaths.