Ukraine Crisis

[napshnap]

Well, if Russia cant prevent these from hitting Moscow then I dont think we need to worry about Russia nuking anyone.

According to russian nuclear doctrine, nuclear weapons will be used if the state is in danger. Ukranian drones attacked (twice!) the building where at least 3 ministries are located. And their talking head said there will be more attacks.
You know... when it is written "do not put your fingers in the socket - it is deadly!", then it is better not to do this, but these are very special people being teased by very special friends.

...

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

Kinda reminds me the ending of "Roadside Picnic" by Arkady Strugatsky, the protagonist takes some noob with him cause he needs a sacrifice to placate the Meat Grinder anomaly so he can get at the Wish Granter.

But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

What's more interesting is what happened to yanks after that - nothing! No sanctions, no condemnation, no dehumanisation. Only humiliating soothing visits to the defeated country on memorable dates and not a word about this act of terror. Winners are not judged.

[greenmark]

According to russian nuclear doctrine, nuclear weapons will be used if the state is in danger. Ukranian drones attacked (twice!) the building where at least 3 ministries are located. And their talking head said there will be more attacks.
You know... when it is written "do not put your fingers in the socket - it is deadly!", then it is better not to do this, but these are very special people being teased by very special friends.

...

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

Kinda reminds me the ending of "Roadside Picnic" by Arkady Strugatsky, the protagonist takes some noob with him cause he needs a sacrifice to placate the Meat Grinder anomaly so he can get at the Wish Granter.

That's a reference that certainly flew way over my head, but I may have a ferret to try to understand it.

[napshnap]

...

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

Kinda reminds me the ending of "Roadside Picnic" by Arkady Strugatsky, the protagonist takes some noob with him cause he needs a sacrifice to placate the Meat Grinder anomaly so he can get at the Wish Granter.

That's a reference that certainly flew way over my head, but I may have a ferret to try to understand it.

Ukraine - noob, protagonist - its "friends", the Meat Grinder anomaly - russian tactical nuclear strikes, get at the Wish Granter - friends response to "send a clear message to China" as Archery suggests.

[greenmark]

Kinda reminds me the ending of "Roadside Picnic" by Arkady Strugatsky, the protagonist takes some noob with him cause he needs a sacrifice to placate the Meat Grinder anomaly so he can get at the Wish Granter.

That's a reference that certainly flew way over my head, but I may have a ferret to try to understand it.

Ukraine - noob, protagonist - its "friends", the Meat Grinder anomaly - russian tactical nuclear strikes, get at the Wish Granter - friends response to "send a clear message to China" as Archery suggests.

OK. Still not "getting it". But I will read that novel. I have time (I think). And you do chuck interesting ideas into the debate. So, some homework for me.

[firlandsfarm]

What's happened to the no Western weapons fired over the border policy?

Ukraine now openly firing drones over Moscow.

It could be a case of which drone from which source exploded where! Ukraine send all their drones at targets in Russia and the Western donated drones stay in Ukraine to defend it.

So the more missiles we send them to use in Ukraine the more they'll have to fire at Russia.

Sounds good to me

[Derek27]

Well, if Russia cant prevent these from hitting Moscow then I dont think we need to worry about Russia nuking anyone.

According to russian nuclear doctrine, nuclear weapons will be used if the state is in danger. Ukranian drones attacked (twice!) the building where at least 3 ministries are located. And their talking head said there will be more attacks.
You know... when it is written "do not put your fingers in the socket - it is deadly!", then it is better not to do this, but these are very special people being teased by very special friends.

There is already a plan in place if/when Putin nukes Ukraine. Obviously I have no idea what the details would be but i think it would be along the lines of:

1. Counter nuke Russian Air, Land, Sea bases in Russia and overseas.
2. Nuke locations of tracked submarines. They dont need to be accurate just generally last known location.
3. Knockout communication and ground tracking satellites.
4. Destroy naval ships out of port.
5. Destory fixed Russian ICBM sites.
6. Destroy last known locations of mobile ICBM's.
7. Destroy Oil, Gas, Electricity infrastructure.
8. Nuke Putin's last known location if inside Russia or outside if not a friendly country.

Obviously all the above would have to be timed correctly to happen within minutes of each other to cause maximum destruction and panic among the Russian military. It would be difficult but not impossible. NATO / The West / USA does have the firepower though, its just a matter of organisation and timings.

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

NATO won't be launching a nuclear attack. It will be an all-out conventional assault.

[napshnap]

That's a reference that certainly flew way over my head, but I may have a ferret to try to understand it.

Ukraine - noob, protagonist - its "friends", the Meat Grinder anomaly - russian tactical nuclear strikes, get at the Wish Granter - friends response to "send a clear message to China" as Archery suggests.

OK. Still not "getting it". But I will read that novel. I have time (I think). And you do chuck interesting ideas into the debate. So, some homework for me.

Thank you, Greenmark, that warms my heart the natural way (not some other thermonuclear way as some folks here suggest).

[Archery1969]

According to russian nuclear doctrine, nuclear weapons will be used if the state is in danger. Ukranian drones attacked (twice!) the building where at least 3 ministries are located. And their talking head said there will be more attacks.
You know... when it is written "do not put your fingers in the socket - it is deadly!", then it is better not to do this, but these are very special people being teased by very special friends.

There is already a plan in place if/when Putin nukes Ukraine. Obviously I have no idea what the details would be but i think it would be along the lines of:

1. Counter nuke Russian Air, Land, Sea bases in Russia and overseas.
2. Nuke locations of tracked submarines. They dont need to be accurate just generally last known location.
3. Knockout communication and ground tracking satellites.
4. Destroy naval ships out of port.
5. Destory fixed Russian ICBM sites.
6. Destroy last known locations of mobile ICBM's.
7. Destroy Oil, Gas, Electricity infrastructure.
8. Nuke Putin's last known location if inside Russia or outside if not a friendly country.

Obviously all the above would have to be timed correctly to happen within minutes of each other to cause maximum destruction and panic among the Russian military. It would be difficult but not impossible. NATO / The West / USA does have the firepower though, its just a matter of organisation and timings.

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

NATO won't be launching a nuclear attack. It will be an all-out conventional assault.

Derek, don’t be so sure of that statement.

There is an interesting article:

WHAT IF RUSSIA USES NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN UKRAINE?

look at the grim scenarios—and the U.S. playbook for each
By Eric Schlosser

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... se/661315/

[Derek27]

There is already a plan in place if/when Putin nukes Ukraine. Obviously I have no idea what the details would be but i think it would be along the lines of:

1. Counter nuke Russian Air, Land, Sea bases in Russia and overseas.
2. Nuke locations of tracked submarines. They dont need to be accurate just generally last known location.
3. Knockout communication and ground tracking satellites.
4. Destroy naval ships out of port.
5. Destory fixed Russian ICBM sites.
6. Destroy last known locations of mobile ICBM's.
7. Destroy Oil, Gas, Electricity infrastructure.
8. Nuke Putin's last known location if inside Russia or outside if not a friendly country.

Obviously all the above would have to be timed correctly to happen within minutes of each other to cause maximum destruction and panic among the Russian military. It would be difficult but not impossible. NATO / The West / USA does have the firepower though, its just a matter of organisation and timings.

In some mad idea, the USA may want Putin to do something terrible so they can react with massive force. Why ?, because it would help send a clear message to China over Taiwan, i.e. Dont even go there or else.

Well, the above is what I would do. But don't forget what happened to Japan, the USA decided to kill a few hundred thousand to end a war and stop further killing.

Biden may be old but he not stupid, his advisors will tell him what to do if Putin does nuke Ukraine. I imagine the plans, including the above were drawn up a long time ago.

NATO won't be launching a nuclear attack. It will be an all-out conventional assault.

Derek, don’t be so sure of that statement.

There is an interesting article:

WHAT IF RUSSIA USES NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN UKRAINE?

look at the grim scenarios—and the U.S. playbook for each
By Eric Schlosser

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... se/661315/

I've never heard of that guy or publication but I trust Michael Clarke. Even from a common sense point of view, why use a nuclear warhead to destroy a missile dump at a conventional cruise or ballistic missile can do?

[alexmr2]

Russian tank single-handedly destroys whole fleet of approaching Ukranian armoured vehicles. The Ukranian invaders didn't stand a chance

[Archery1969]

Russian tank single-handedly destroys whole fleet of approaching Ukranian armoured vehicles. The Ukranian invaders didn't stand a chance

Fuck me, Kermit’s back, where you been, at the London communist party dinner ?

[Derek27]

Russian tank single-handedly destroys whole fleet of approaching Ukranian armoured vehicles. The Ukranian invaders didn't stand a chance

Stop talking crap, get out of your fantasy world and post a reliable source.

[Archery1969]

By Lee Madan
BBC News
22 hours ago

The British Army's training of Ukrainian soldiers has entered a crucial new phase with more than 100 being taught to become instructors.

Troops have been taking part in an intensive course in Wiltshire to improve their skills using self-propelled artillery guns.

Around 30 AS90s and 14 Challenger 2 battle tanks are being sent to Ukraine, as announced by the prime minister.

The training will help the Ukrainian military become more self-sufficient.

The Ukrainian instructors are being taught how to shoot and service artillery, so they can teach those on the ground back home.

Full story link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-66357867

[Archery1969]

And if anyone is in any doubt how well Ukraine is doing, the following explains it so even Kermit could realise he talking drivel.

[Archery1969]

Here we go: