Betfair Expert fee : Questions

[Euler]

What happens to the lifetime losses amount? Does that get removed?

You won't' pay any charges if your lifetime is less than zero

[Euler]

What happens to the lifetime losses amount? Does that get removed?

It's a rolling 52 week gross. Older gains or losses no longer count.

Scratching old winnings is a way to tempt people back who earned a decent <100k amount but were hammered by PC or PC2 and stuck on it.

I think you keep your bank of losses to carry forward

If account lifetime P&L is <0 no charges

[jamesedwards]

It's a rolling 52 week gross. Older gains or losses no longer count.

Scratching old winnings is a way to tempt people back who earned a decent <100k amount but were hammered by PC or PC2 and stuck on it.

I think you keep your bank of losses to carry forward

If account lifetime P&L is <0 no charges

Perhaps they are referring to any built up Premium Charge buffer rather than the lifetime P&L?

[FrankieFallon]

Hi

If I’m winning 45k this last 6 months I assume I’ll go straight on 20% EF. Will my p&l go back to zero come the 6th?

[Revenant]

What happens to the lifetime losses amount? Does that get removed?

It's a rolling 52 week gross. Older gains or losses no longer count.

Scratching old winnings is a way to tempt people back who earned a decent <100k amount but were hammered by PC or PC2 and stuck on it.

It's based on the last 52 ACTIVE weeks for the Gross pnl so old gains will count if someone's left and come back.

[Revenant]

Hi

If I’m winning 45k this last 6 months I assume I’ll go straight on 20% EF. Will my p&l go back to zero come the 6th?

Need to assess the last 52 active weeks on a rolling basis, if you've less than 52 active weeks they'd base it on those until you'd gone over 52 weeks then carry on on a rolling basis.

https://support.betfair.com/app/answers ... activeweek

[FrankieFallon]

Yes it’s only been active 6 months. I assume it will go straight on 20%. . But do I start a fresh 0 from next week or will it be what I’m winning carried over ? Sorry so confusing

[mathsnerd]

Will there be any penalties for those who will be close to a transition boundary (eg. 25K+ to move to 40%) who have a better than average week and place bets that they normally would not place to try and remain within their current limit.

Simple example, 24k gross over last 51 weeks, Saturday before cutoff they have a great day and make £2k which will push their gross to over 25k. If they then place a string of large bets on the Sunday on large price runners (happy for a huge win, but hoping really for a loss) in order to pull that gross profit back within the 20% limit by the time the PC week ends. Will this be seen as some kind of premium charge avoidance and/or will it be penalised in some manner.

Similar question has been asked about cutting back activity to remain under, but I am more wondering about intentional steps to remove yourself from the 40% or 20% bands in the manner described above.

[ShaunWhite]

For 25-100k the fee is 20% of your weekly gross in total, so generate 15% and it's a 5% fee. Deliberately losing might not save you much. But generally commission generated suits everyone.

Perennial question, why is implied commission on losses always the same regardless of base rate?

For the UK you get 1% of your win commission (half) and now 1.25%.on losses (half of 2.5%).
In Aus the base rate can be 8 or 10% so you get say 4%.on win comm paid but still only 1.25% on your losses. Easier to just calc and show it at market level with a simple half of the prevailing rate for both wins and losses?

In the UK implied commission effectively credits both parties with half the commission each, in Aus the winner gets credit for half and the loser much less than half. On an 8% market 2.75% of it goes unrecognised as being generated.?

[Sonny]

For those with accounts in euros, is the expert fee exempt from up to €30,000 of gross profit in the last 52 weeks or are the intervals different?

Living in the UK, but account in EUR:

will the thresholds be €30,000 and €120,000 -?

[jamesedwards]

Is there any concern that the decrease in implied commission rates from 3% to 2.5% will impact volume and associated liquidity currently created from commission churning? Or is this a deliberate move to reduce the amount of commission churning in action?

[mathsnerd]

Is there any concern that the decrease in implied commission rates from 3% to 2.5% will impact volume and associated liquidity currently created from commission churning? Or is this a deliberate move to reduce the amount of commission churning in action?

When I read the initial document about this rebranding of PC I got the impression that this was supposed to reflect the change in average commission across the exchange.

[jamesedwards]

Is there any concern that the decrease in implied commission rates from 3% to 2.5% will impact volume and associated liquidity currently created from commission churning? Or is this a deliberate move to reduce the amount of commission churning in action?

When I read the initial document about this rebranding of PC I got the impression that this was supposed to reflect the change in average commission across the exchange.

Yes that's how it's been sold. But whether deliberate or not, a direct effect of the new rates will be reduced volume from commission churning because it becomes much harder to achieve, plus the reward for doing so is significantly reduced. This may well all be part of the plan, or it may be an unexpected and unwelcome side effect.

[ShaunWhite]

You'd need to churn more rather than less? And it's all worth still having.

I'm just perpetually irritated that Aus losses count for so little (2.5%) vs the charge on wins (6 8 or even 10%) In the UK you get more credit for losses than wins¿ 2.5% vs 2%.

[mathsnerd]

Is there any concern that the decrease in implied commission rates from 3% to 2.5% will impact volume and associated liquidity currently created from commission churning? Or is this a deliberate move to reduce the amount of commission churning in action?

When I read the initial document about this rebranding of PC I got the impression that this was supposed to reflect the change in average commission across the exchange.

Yes that's how it's been sold. But whether deliberate or not, a direct effect of the new rates will be reduced volume from commission churning because it becomes much harder to achieve, plus the reward for doing so is significantly reduced. This may well all be part of the plan, or it may be an unexpected and unwelcome side effect.

Yes it would appear so. And now the boundaries are set as GROSS profit, why would anyone profitable or new to the game choose anything other than 2% as their commission rate - which could pull that implied commission down even further.