Isn't trading often times counter-intuitive as well OP
Steep learning curves always weed out the dabblers, ultimately doing them a favour too I think
Like the legendary Luke? Who posted the same memorable thread 5 or so years ago but with much more negative feedback
If everything appeared super intuitive and easy I imagine people would throw money at it just to end up in the hole much quicker, and looking for someone to blame
Btw good to see Mr Gaz make an appearance after a long hiatus
I felt bad for my rather glib response to the OP. Although I completely disagree in this instance, I actually do appreciate the value of constructive discussion and therefore I thought it important to add something more construct-ed. Not really in response to the OP as, after all, who is to say my opinion actually counts for anything - but rather as some feedback for the BA team.
Imagine someone stepping into a fully equipped gourmet kitchen for the first time. At first glance, it might feel overwhelming—an array of tools, gadgets, and ingredients, many of which seem intimidating or unfamiliar. But that kitchen isn’t inherently complicated; it’s simply designed to offer versatility and precision to those who take the time to learn how to use it. Over time, what once seemed daunting becomes second nature, and the user finds themselves creating dishes they never thought possible.
I tend to think of BetAngel as that kitchen. It’s not designed to be restrictive or confusing—it’s designed to give you the tools to trade with finesse, adapt to countless market scenarios, and, ultimately, find your edge. And more importantly, for us all to find a slightly different edge than one another to ensure that we do not ultimately erode anyone else's.
For someone expecting a microwave and a can opener, the sheer depth of possibility might initially feel complex. But for those willing to learn, it becomes a space where creativity and strategy can thrive.
Someone recently reminded me that when we share our ideas, we’re offering the product of a lifetime of thought and experience. BetAngel reflects that same principle: it’s the result of years of refinement, development, and understanding of what traders need to succeed. That richness of design is a gift, not a burden.
So, rather than asking if BetAngel is too complicated, perhaps the better question is: What can I learn from it? After all, every great chef starts by learning how to hold a knife.
Correct me but 0.5% of people make a profit from Betfair.
I played with bet angel and many other automation systems from 2012 and lost money, went back to grafting..10 years later with 1000s hours i now have the knowledge base as to my mistakes, i have a far better understand of racing now.. and look for the correct races to trade, and what to avoid. secondly not being greedy make my set percentage profit and get out.
Bet angle is a great software that just delivers everything i need.
Correct me but 0.5% of people make a profit from Betfair.
Way more than 0.5% make a profit from Betfair, but some of that depends on how you measure it. If you say 'over the last year' that number is way off, if you say average more than £100k for 25 years then the number will be small. etc. etc.
BA is as flexible as you want. Yes, it's complex to set up. That's the point. No such thing as a free lunch. You have to have a strategy and then map that with BA. BA is not a route to riches without your own input. It's a toolkit.
Is all commercial software too complex for it's own good? You could say that about any software ... who can command the use of all the facilities of Excel, Word, Access etc. You learn the bits you want to use and maybe expand your knowledge over time on an as required basis (and by asking questions here if something is possible and if so how?).
It's always been far too cheap. Can't see enough in the kitty for anything revolutionary. Can't even get independent strategies to stop it interfering with anything else you're doing. I'd like to use it more but it's from a time when it had a monopoly and people had MS accounts for seperate strategies. It's spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar. Subscriber for 8 or 9yrs now so I'm not hating, I just want it to be easier to integrate into a wider trading system and facilitate multiple strategies.
It's always been far too cheap. Can't see enough in the kitty for anything revolutionary. Can't even get independent strategies to stop it interfering with anything else you're doing. I'd like to use it more but it's from a time when it had a monopoly and people had MS accounts for seperate strategies. It's spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar. Subscriber for 8 or 9yrs now so I'm not hating, I just want it to be easier to integrate into a wider trading system and facilitate multiple strategies.
I certainly agree with the multiple strategies thing ... I've asked many times for some form of individual bet identification/management facility so that it can manage multiple strategies rather than one rule affects all.
I recently took another look at the servants within Bet Angel.
Servant.png
The ones in the shared file section of the forum, from Dallas, have been tested and can be used to support methods when identifying steamers and/or drifters. There are also some you-tube videos to give you a taste of how they work.
Admittedly, quite complex to create one from scratch, but well worth importing a few and add them to your trading arsenal.
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With complexity comes additional flexibility — definitely a good thing.
New features only add to possibilities, it's possible customers come for one specific aspect of the software and that's all.
If you walk into a candy store it's up to you to decide which you want to buy from the myriad of options. The store wouldn't do much business if it only gave users the choice between cola bottles or strawberry gobstoppers. People would demand more so it's only natural/inevitable to end up here.
imo if you're looking for something "simpler", you should switch candy stores to one which suits your particular needs better, rather than nag the store owner to reduce the size of their store.
I don't know if I've made this point deeper in this topic or elsewhere.
But one of the reasons we have continued to develop Bet Angel, and it's become more complex, is so that you can outcompete others in the market.
Lots of other software out there was created to purely exploit the trading opportunity and development has stopped after the core product is created. So you should see increased complexity as a competitive advantage against people stuff on simpler systems or software.
, is so that you can outcompete others in the market.
I'd have thought being able to run multiple independent strategies, or use Guardian and the Ladder seperately, or to use BA and bespoke software independently, would would be high on the list of features that would help to achieve that.
Eg all that work controlling Guardian via an API is great but then you can only run one strategy per market, and its bets are splashed all over the ladder so it's impossible to manually trade as well. Unless I'm missing something. ??
