doing the do..

The sport of kings.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

LeTiss 4pm wrote: This is a forum to discuss trading, this isn't a forum for gambling.
Surely it's a forum for both trading and gambling, if we assume that Bet Angel is used by gamblers as well as traders (even if it's primary use is probably trading).

BTW, in response to MG's point, I've looked through the thread and I accept that 007 isn't betting blind. I'm not sure what gave me the impression that he was. However, he acknowledges that he is a beginner, so he might as well be...

Jeff
Zenyatta
Posts: 1143
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:17 pm

This is the correct way to do it:

I judged that 'On The Bridge' was too short in the 15:30 at Hereford. I therefore placed a total of 443 in lay bets at average odds of 2.62. In fact my judgement was entirely correct, the selection drifting slightly to 2.70 by the off.

What would have happened if I had punted? In fact, I would have had the living snort kicked out of me, with the selection romping home for a liability of 717!

Wisely, I traded and here was my result:

Horse Racing > Here 1st Nov : 2m4f Hcap Hrd Showing 1 - 2 of 2 Selections

Selection Odds Stake($) Bid type Placed Profit/loss($)
On The Bridge * 2.70 429.80 Back 730.66
On The Bridge * 2.62 443.00 Lay -717.46
*Average odds: On Off Back subtotal: 730.66
Lay subtotal: -717.46
Market subtotal: 13.20
Commission @ 4.7%: 0.62
Net Market Total: 12.58

A good solid green-up of 12.58 for the race.
malcolmk33
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 am

Calm down LeTiss,

I was just trying to make a point. There is something to be learnt in what we sometimes did wrongly. If u don't mind, I would like to post more of my p&l of late.

First yesterday was a $500+ profit in 9 races, then the day before last was a triumphant clawing back of an early big loss and ending with a small profit. Both happened before disaster strikes today, as in my earlier post showed.

The fact is this is not something I've gotten the hang of as an everyday's affair, as one would like to think. For the past months, I'm feeling as confused as anyone would be on their early foray into finding an edge in Betfair trading (horse racing in particular).

Just like rogerlisa said, when one has found an opening in doing something successfully (like having consistent gains and gradual growth in your trading), it's only natural for one to attempt to probe deeper and faster. I'm currently in the kind of state that rogerlisa referring to. Started trading on horses since late June, losing on the first few months (a couple of hundreds a month- only with money set aside for learning the trade, of course), then found a reasonable footing to trade with profits since early October. And like I said, once you have found the fountain head, everything just started to spurt and cascade. Recover my losses and triple the amount on top in one month. And it wasn't with pure lunatic laying the odds strategy that I used to make those gains. I did a lot of simple trading before the off. Nor I used a big bank at the beginning. I always re-started with a $100 bank after I busted one. Though I can't imagine myself re-ignite the process with a starting bank of $100 nowadays. ;)

Going back to the issue of my laying strategy of late. Well, there was a time (not too long ago) I was thinking to myself. How could I speed everything up? What was a decent ROI of 5-10% of the day's starting bank was just too "SLOW" in my eyes. Then, this big idea of "why not just choose the horse with no chance to lay" :idea: I'm not going to list out here the criteria I use to judge a losing horse. But the obvious pitfall of the idea was once you lose, you lose BIG. Then I was tinkering with all kind of compensation strategy, like laying 1 horse only in a big field of over 10 runners, withdrawing the profits (which runs the gamut of <30-100% of ROI a day) at the end of the day and keep bank size reasonable, so on and so forth. As the results were positive for a while, I just got bolder- laying multiple horses in race, (twice the return, why not), over 20 runners in a 7f race (if I lay 3 horses at a time, 3 times the return, and everything will be finished in less than 1m30s in-running). Then 5f race with 5-6 runners- yes, i can still lay that horse, I just have to exert more care- (by opening my eyes wider, as if that helps). :roll: Now, what else have I not done?

Well, guess there must be some points to be learnt from such experiences. I did say earlier that I was trying to make one. The thing is I'm still not quite sure what it is. :?:
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

I'm really bored with this now. My participation in this thread is over.

#clueless
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Don't hold back - tell us what you really think! :lol: :)
mugsgame wrote:I'm really bored with this now. My participation in this thread is over.

#clueless
freddy
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:22 pm

:? a truly baffling thread

laying at random is a quick route to the poorhouse
why would 007 do such a thing :lol:
PvtR1ZLa
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:36 am

Hi 007,

I know where you are getting your lays from. So i'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve?

Regards

Rizla
Alpha322
Posts: 921
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:45 pm

LeTiss 4pm wrote:This thread should be locked

This is a forum to discuss trading, this isn't a forum for gambling.

Laying horses with a massive liability on 1 selection is not trading, sooner or later your pants will be around your ankles
Yes BA moderators surley BA is for trading win win positions, we have done all that laying and backing stuff and waiting to hit the poor house
PeterLe
Posts: 3724
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Alpha322 wrote:
LeTiss 4pm wrote:This thread should be locked

This is a forum to discuss trading, this isn't a forum for gambling.

Laying horses with a massive liability on 1 selection is not trading, sooner or later your pants will be around your ankles
Yes BA moderators surley BA is for trading win win positions, we have done all that laying and backing stuff and waiting to hit the poor house
I'm with Letiss and Alpha on this. it would be a shame if this forum started including gambling threads, surely there are enough forums out there to accommodate topics of this nature? the betfair forums are full of such threads and the authors seem to last a couple of weeks at best, before being replaced by someone new.
just my opinion, but I think it sends the wrong message out to people using of thinking of using the software too.
of the hundreds of education videos on betangel tv, not one that I can remember talks about gambling? nor does Peter's course for that matter.
Regards
Peter
malcolmk33
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 am

I hope I am not coming across as being pro-gambling by any sense. I was just trying to highlight the kind of thoughts that might go through the mind of a person trying to find an edge in trading Betfair to an extreme extent (like what I did with the laying strategy). I was just trying to depict the scenarios and consequences in details. Didn't think it could be deemed so provocative for some. :shock: Hope I didn't offend anyone.
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pdupre1961
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 pm

PvtR1ZLa wrote:Hi 007,

I know where you are getting your lays from. So i'm not too sure what you are trying to achieve?

Regards

Rizla
I knew he/she was been fed these lays. No newbie could find so many winners (er losers) by themselves.

How much are you paying 007. I'm interested again now...
freddy
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:22 pm

Im confused about this thread :lol: , he hasn’t posted any of his lays, so how do people know if his results are good or where he is getting his lays from.

:?
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pdupre1961
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 pm

freddy wrote:Im confused about this thread :lol: , he hasn’t posted any of his lays, so how do people know if his results are good or where he is getting his lays from.

:?
They've been removed.
freddy
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:22 pm

Yeah I saw that, but it was just a list of numbers really ;) ,
There were no horse names and all were posted after the races were run.

Even if they were all genuine it was such a small sample size and nothing to suggest It was a profitable system.
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

It's official. The Betfair forum has arrived!
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