Full Timers
I'm 18 and trading the Australian markets full-time. I wonder if I'm the youngest one on here? 
I want to go into bookmaking later in life so I guess I'm making good money and learning at the same time! I've had a lot of support from my family so that just makes it easier for me. I'm going back to Beverley in EY for 5 weeks for a work/holiday to try out UK racing and visit family, so will be enjoying the cold weather with you guys soon!
I want to go into bookmaking later in life so I guess I'm making good money and learning at the same time! I've had a lot of support from my family so that just makes it easier for me. I'm going back to Beverley in EY for 5 weeks for a work/holiday to try out UK racing and visit family, so will be enjoying the cold weather with you guys soon!
JImrobo makes a very valid point about the markets getting smaller on Betfair. Can be looked at as Pre privatisation/Post privatisation including the PC.
Other on line betting platforms and bookmakers are constantly innovating. Betfair seems to have stopped innovating.
It would appear to be that their main interest lies with shareholders rather than us the people who generate their income.
The above are just some of the reasons why trading full time solely on Betfair is now not viable.
Other on line betting platforms and bookmakers are constantly innovating. Betfair seems to have stopped innovating.
It would appear to be that their main interest lies with shareholders rather than us the people who generate their income.
The above are just some of the reasons why trading full time solely on Betfair is now not viable.
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AReasonedView
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:27 pm
It is still viable - it depends 100% what you do/how good you are/what markets you trade - the PC is the major reason why it has got much harder though and by it's introduction Betfair have chased many players away which generally is a strange way to run a business. I trade the football markets for a living + a bit of horses too + other odds and ends. I also look for small value bets but these have to be put on at Betdaq to avoid paying PC on Betfair on them - how silly is that with regard to Betfair.
Thanks to "AReasonedView" you have summed up exactly what at the moment is wrong with Betfair. Like you and numerous others I avoid horseracing like the plague concentrating on other markets.
Most full timers now use Betdaq and other platforms to avoid the PC charge, that is the main reason why markets have fallen.
When will Betfair have the courage to say "oops we got this wrong" and remove it. Who knows, but long term it is impacting on everybody.
Most full timers now use Betdaq and other platforms to avoid the PC charge, that is the main reason why markets have fallen.
When will Betfair have the courage to say "oops we got this wrong" and remove it. Who knows, but long term it is impacting on everybody.
Hi Kalumpus,Kalumpus wrote:Full time over 7 years here - strictly horses in-play these days - can honestly say I've never enjoyed it more.
I am fairly new to Bet Angel, used the free version for a couple of weeks and have Just paid my subscription today, and joined the Forum too.
I attended Peter Webbs Master Class a few days ago and found it very interesting and inspirational.
I have also been trauling through various Youtube videos for training and trading tips along the way.
In the majority of videos, tutorials and information I have dug up, the 'Cardinal Sin' is to let the race go into running or in other words, all trading is "Pre Off" and Greened up before the race starts. My question to you Kalumpus, as you are clearly a professional and succesful trader is this :- What is your strategy for "In-Play" Trading??
I appreciate that you will not want to divulge to all and sundry, any hard saught after techniques that you use, but for example do you use the In-Play button on Bet Angel or are you just very fast at scalping in play or maybe you have designed some kind of automation to help you.
I would really appreciate any words of wizdom you may be able to offer without giving away your success secrets.
Before I came across Bet Angel I was using Bet Trader Evo and i developed my very own in-play system which I was amazed that no other trader had come across. I called it "Laying the Donkey". I wont go into details but lets just say that the only Donkey at the end of the day was ME!!
Anyways, before everyone starts to slate me - it did say somewhere at the start of the Forum that we Newbies can ask questions and no one will laugh or make fun of us
Cheers
Andy
I just dont understand why betfair are charging 60% pc. fair enough if people are making a good income charge more maybe 15% tops.
The people that are making money are putting lots of money into the markets and get them moving not just for traders but for people that like to bet to.
The people that are making money are putting lots of money into the markets and get them moving not just for traders but for people that like to bet to.
I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for saying this, but imagine you were a Betfair shareholder. I don't think you would want Betfair to sacrifice profits in the name of fairness.
Whilst the 60% payers do contribute a lot of liquidity to Betfair, Betfair may well take the view that they could step into their shoes and offer liquidity themselves if necessary. They probably also correctly foretold that there wouldn't be a mass exodus to Betdaq.
I imagine that most of Betfair's profits come from mug punters, not from the big hitters. Punter A makes money from Punter B, and places another bet, losing his money to Punter C. Every time this money-go-round happens, Betfair makes money from commission. By contrast, when a 60% trader has a good day, the grand he makes will leave the ecosystem and go into his bank account. If he were out of the way and Betfair were the main market maker, that wouldn't be such an issue.
Jeff
Whilst the 60% payers do contribute a lot of liquidity to Betfair, Betfair may well take the view that they could step into their shoes and offer liquidity themselves if necessary. They probably also correctly foretold that there wouldn't be a mass exodus to Betdaq.
I imagine that most of Betfair's profits come from mug punters, not from the big hitters. Punter A makes money from Punter B, and places another bet, losing his money to Punter C. Every time this money-go-round happens, Betfair makes money from commission. By contrast, when a 60% trader has a good day, the grand he makes will leave the ecosystem and go into his bank account. If he were out of the way and Betfair were the main market maker, that wouldn't be such an issue.
Jeff
Jeff betfair are taking money out of the exchange to by charging 60%.
An exchange is no different than running a country, if you charge (tax) the big earners then that stops growth.
And are you saying betfair will put there money up against other traders? they wont be making 60% off the top traders they will be lucky to break even.
An exchange is no different than running a country, if you charge (tax) the big earners then that stops growth.
And are you saying betfair will put there money up against other traders? they wont be making 60% off the top traders they will be lucky to break even.
Betfair are suffering from this: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
But they are only just starting to realise the fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
But they are only just starting to realise the fact.
I know - not sure what your point is...marko236 wrote:Jeff betfair are taking money out of the exchange to by charging 60%.
Completely invalid analogy.marko236 wrote:An exchange is no different than running a country, if you charge (tax) the big earners then that stops growth.
It's not like the traders are manufacturing anything or employing anyone. They are winners in a sum zero game, and pre-PC, if they took their winnings out of the ecosystem then that would diminish Betfair's own earning potential.
Betfair makes money from net losers exchanging multiple bets and being charged for the privilege. If people place bets and lays at efficient prices - which they do on the whole - sooner or later they will lose all their money to commission. Net winners who make money and then take it out of the system don't fit into that business model...
They own their own sportsbook, so they are obviously comfortable laying; it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, if you offer to the market and don't pay any commission, at worst you'll more or less break even long term.marko236 wrote:And are you saying betfair will put there money up against other traders? they wont be making 60% off the top traders they will be lucky to break even.
What would stop them from doing so?
Jeff
I'm not sure the Laffer curve applies to this situation.
Let's say that all of the 60% payers were to leave Betfair. What is to stop Betfair stepping into their shoes and becoming the new market makers and big stake traders, and taking all of the Premium Charge payers' profits themselves?
I'm sure they can buy the technology and the expertise to make that happen. Computers these days can beat Gary Kasparov at chess, so I'm sure that Betfair, with all of their resources, can use them to model and replicate successful traders' methods.
Jeff
Let's say that all of the 60% payers were to leave Betfair. What is to stop Betfair stepping into their shoes and becoming the new market makers and big stake traders, and taking all of the Premium Charge payers' profits themselves?
I'm sure they can buy the technology and the expertise to make that happen. Computers these days can beat Gary Kasparov at chess, so I'm sure that Betfair, with all of their resources, can use them to model and replicate successful traders' methods.
Jeff
Euler wrote:Betfair are suffering from this: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
But they are only just starting to realise the fact.