I'VE SEEN SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T EXIST...

[Iron]

When I first saw those questions, I honestly sighed (no disrespect Jeff), to answer each of those questions in depth would literally fill a large book.
The best of it is; EVERY one of those questions has been answered over time in the forum.

I disagree on both counts (and with respect, I think you're being negative and defensive - was the sigh comment really necessary?).

I think that detailed advice would benefit newbies (although I can see a reasonable case for not providing it, in terms of protecting edges). However, I agree with James that videos that are there to demonstrate the software's capabilities rather than showing profitable techniques should come with a health warning.

Anyway, given your defensive tone above and the last time we debated this issue, I think it's best if we agree to disagree.

Jeff

[Iron]

Not in all the videos.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2z1XhEhS-Q

It's an enjoyable video to watch, but whilst people could spend hours guessing why you did what you did (and I'm sure many have), it's not clear what your entrance, exit or staking strategies were. I'm not sure, therefore, whether watching this video will have improved many people's trading (although it might have).

Here is another example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM5L2QnwbV4

You've said that the market is one that has the right conditions for what you're going to do, but you haven't said what those conditions are. Without understanding the underlying principles behind why you entered and exited the market, it might be hard for viewers to apply that video to their own trading.

I realise that you may have good reasons for not going into that kind of detail though. As James said, no-one can reasonably expect you to give away your edge.

Jeff

Also, when demonstrating a trade, it would be good if Peter provided detailed analysis of why he did what he did at each juncture, rather than leaving viewers to try to psychoanalyze his decisions.

Which is what I clearly did in those videos?

[Iron]

On a dev checklist we have a button that we have yet to implement. It's the called the 'make a million' button. You don't need to think about anything or work to achieve an edge, you just press it and it prints money. We still haven't developed it just yet unfortunately. But I think perhaps that what you are looking for with those questions? A shortcut?

What I'm saying is that new traders would benefit from a foundation to build on, and answers to questions such as those above would help with that. It would help to provide the starting point that you refer to, and speed up the learning process.

I've seen a few things that purport to show the above, but as a long term trader I can smell BS a mile off,

You could address that misinformation problem by giving the right answers to those questions.

Jeff

[icarus121]

Jeff ..
why are you being so pedantic with these guys?
Maybe its not what you want to hear but you should give up trading.
I say that with the upmost respect ....move on mate,its not for everyone.Jesus you have been led to the well ,by people on here in the past and you didnt get it!

Maybe its not for you my friend.

[Iron]

Jeff ..
why are you being so pedantic with these guys?

If being pedantic = putting forward valid and constructive counter arguments, then I'm guilty as charged.

Groups generally go with the group status quo and turn on people who are seen to attack it. It happens in the markets and it happens in forums. Something to consider...

Maybe its not for you my friend.

Maybe, but let's focus on the issue at hand, not on me.

Jeff

[walshy]

Jeff,

When you post you see it as "putting forward valid and constructive counter arguments". However, when someone disagree's its "A group turning on you and attacking".

You seem to have a real blind spot when it comes to people giving you tips and hints on here, and instead of thinking "how can I use that information to get where I want to be" your first reaction is why havnt they told me exactly how to do it.

I mean that not as an attack but hopefully as a bit of constructive criticism. You've been a regular contributor on here for a good while and have provoked many's a lively debate.

I for one would like to see you achieve what your after but I think you may have to have a bit of a rethink in how your going about it.

With regard to the videos peter posts, to be honest I cant see why anyone would think that the videos were for any other reason but to promote the software?

The sum's seen to be made should do nothing other than show what's possible to achieve and should if anything inspire to find a way to achieve it.

Expecting anything else is unrealistic and pretty unfair.

[Iron]

Jeff,

When you post you see it as "putting forward valid and constructive counter arguments". However, when someone disagree's its "A group turning on you and attacking".

Have a look at the image in PeterLe's post. If that were directed at you, I think you'd feel offended.

I have expressed my opinions politely and constructively, without using charged language. Not everyone's tone has been so constructive.

Thank you for your feedback though.

With regard to the videos peter posts, to be honest I cant see why anyone would think that the videos were for any other reason but to promote the software?

They are there partly to promote the software, although I think Peter is also trying to contribute knowledge to the trading community.

I just think it would be better to provide additional guidance and to add health warnings to videos that demonstrate techniques that one could apply (rather than those which have an edge). For example, if someone sees Peter back a horse pre-off and then lay it in play (I think there's a video where he basically does that), and make an easy profit, then might be lulled into thinking that that is a profitable approach (rather than gambling).

Jeff

[walshy]

99% of the people on here arnt here to offend IMHO, but the problem with typed word conversations is that the correct tone of a sentence isn't always correctly received.

With regard to a warning, thats counter productive to what he's trying to achieve which is the promotion of Bet Angel. I agree he's also quite happy to provide some education along the way but I would imagine Bet Angel promotion is the primary aim and I dont see anything wrong with that.

Once a new trader tries to replicate the results they're always going to see it isnt just a matter of click anywhere and cash in. What they should also realise is that they've just had their first trading lesson.

[Iron]

With regard to a warning, thats counter productive to what he's trying to achieve which is the promotion of Bet Angel. I agree he's also quite happy to provide some education along the way but I would imagine Bet Angel promotion is the primary aim and I dont see anything wrong with that.

As a free market economist, I don't think cigarette companies should have a duty to print health warnings or that casinos should have a duty to warn people who are chasing their losses to take it easy. They should be free to use any honest and legal means available to encourage people to spend as much as possible. Similarly, I don't think Bet Angel has an ethical obligation to include warnings (although it would be nice if they did IMHO).

I'm not implying that videos are created with the intention of encouraging people to behave irresponsibly, btw, but that may be the unintended outcome with some people.

Once a new trader tries to replicate the results they're always going to see it isnt just a matter of click anywhere and cash in. What they should also realise is that they've just had their first trading lesson.

They should, but it doesn't always work that way. I've seen traders carry on banging away with what they perceive are a guru's methods, thinking that the fault must be with them and if they just practice enough they will get the hang of it. I've been there myself too.

Jeff

[Euler]

I can make you a set of keys, show you the door, give you keys to unlock the door, but only the user can unlock the door by shuffling through the set and trying each one. Sometimes you make not like the door choosen, but that's defined by the user. I can't predict that or advise on that.

That's pretty much how I see it and the way I create videos.

Both strategies will work given the right settings and market, but you have to have a play with them. I don't think that's unreasonable?

[LeTiss]

I'm not sure if a BA health warning is necessary, Jeff (though I have developed minor Tourettes since trading )

Peter's videos are simply showing the software he's trying to sell. However, where some inexperienced traders may quickly crash & burn, is what to do when a trade goes wrong?!

I watched Peter's recent video from 3rd July where he showed an 'in play' horse stratgey of keeping a bet, and letting BA green up for 25 ticks and £1.64 profit. What Peter didn't show is what happens if the horse lost and didn't come in 25 ticks.....he would have lost £10 which then requires 7 successful 25 tick trades to recoup that money!

Peter doesn't show how to make money, he shows how BA can assist your trading.

IMO, it's like the dreaded Martingale. The thing which seriously buggers gamblers/traders is what to do when things go wrong - this is where the disastrous leaving bets 'in play' comes into force. People make the mistake of chasing losses etc, which is not how a trader should think......it took me a long time to get my head around that

I never went on Peter's course, or therefore seen his manual, but I'd be interested to know if he covers psychology, or dealing with a loss in there

[Iron]

Peter - Would you agree that some of those keys won't unlock any doors though?

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjnz0i7EtME#t=53

Correct me if I'm wrong, but blindly backing odds-on horses pre-off and laying in-play with a pre-determined offset is a net losing strategy (although that isn't made clear in the video).

Jeff

[Euler]

Therefore are you saying you would back Man Utd at home against Walsall in the same manner as Man Utd at home to Bayern Munich? Or are you just deliberately trying to look like an idiot?

[to75ne]

jeff,

personally i think peter is only demonstrating betangles functionality and not demonstrating a strategy.

peter knows enough about horse racing to select an appropiate race that will enable him to demonstrate taking a 25 tick offset bet inplay.

novice handicapp hurdle class 5 10 runner 2m 7f
the fave went off at 4/5 (sp)
2nd 12/1(sp)
3rd(25/1 (sp)

he places at 1.81 and states something like"taking advantage that not only will it win 50% of the time etc etc"

it would not be unexpected that such a short priced fav with the opposition it was against in such a race to come in 25 ticks from an off price of 1.8/1.81.

peter knows this and thats probably why he selected this race to demonstrate functionality and not a strategy.

[AmazingMisterX]

Always enjoyed Peter's videos. Since day one.

None of them give you a blanket winning strategy that will guarantee you a fortune but they do give you food for thought and have certainly pointed me in the right direction since I began trading.

He doesn't need to be making them or posting blogs & video blogs. I don't see other software makers posting anything like as much as Peter. I always find them very helpful. Hope to see many more in the future. Im very appreciative of them as Im sure a lot of people out there are.