Ferru123 wrote:Hi Ba1000
Did you get there in the end with spread betting?
If not, I can refer you to a couple of systems which appear, based on the reviews I've read and my emails with the authors, appear to be the real deal.
BTW, I believe that these figures of 400-500 pounds per week are perfectly realistic. If you have an edge over the market, and you bet x% of your bank on each trade, then sooner or later your bank will increase in size and with it your profit per trade.
Jeff
ba1000 wrote:
My own experience is I quit a job to do financial spread betting several years ago (as I said earlier) and a few years ago I thought I would look into Betfair. I have lost just about everything in attempting to educate myself how to learn how to trade.
light bulb moment in betfair trading career
Hi oscar123,
I encountered similar issues in the past due to a Bet Angel issue that they identified and corrected. Since upgrading to 1.23.7, I haven't encountered any instances of it happening again, so I would definitely recommend upgrading.
Here is the thread where similar issues were discussed and resolved: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1407
I encountered similar issues in the past due to a Bet Angel issue that they identified and corrected. Since upgrading to 1.23.7, I haven't encountered any instances of it happening again, so I would definitely recommend upgrading.
Here is the thread where similar issues were discussed and resolved: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1407
Hi Jeff,
You asked:
"If not, I can refer you to a couple of systems which appear, based on the reviews I've read and my emails with the authors, appear to be the real deal."
I have spent lots of money of on such things however I would recommend people to learn the business for themselves. I do not believe in a "black box" solution any more.
Now you may have a genuine solution which knowing my luck I may be throwing away but I will have to pass on as I said I do not have the funds any more for further investigation.
I know we are diverging from the thread again - but I predicted the bull market of 2003 of the Dow Jones Index - nothing special here anybody could have done it - it was a clear inverted Head and shoulders bottom pattern if you are into technical analysis. And I also predicted correctly the crash of the Dow Jones in 2007 - again it was a clear Head and Shoulders Top pattern.
I did make money but then due to my inexperience gave it all back to the market again.
The only time I made 500,000 pounds! yes that is correct was when I purchased about 6 company's penny shares for 10,000 (about 2k on each). Three years later they were worth 500,000 and guess what.....
yes I sold then a couple of months after because I saw an advert earn £400 / day spread betting.
So that was doing nothing for three years and collecting the cash!
I will leave it up to you to judge which is better.
The problem with spread betting is leverage - you can quickly become heavily over exposed if the market goes against you.
The trading course I attending in the City (I menetioned earlier) said expect to start making money after 1 year! ie if you were successful on the 4 week course you would get a job using their money. however you had to support yourself ie living costs and pay for your trading desk fees.
Unfortunately I had not the money to support myself for the year as I had run out.
You asked:
"If not, I can refer you to a couple of systems which appear, based on the reviews I've read and my emails with the authors, appear to be the real deal."
I have spent lots of money of on such things however I would recommend people to learn the business for themselves. I do not believe in a "black box" solution any more.
Now you may have a genuine solution which knowing my luck I may be throwing away but I will have to pass on as I said I do not have the funds any more for further investigation.
I know we are diverging from the thread again - but I predicted the bull market of 2003 of the Dow Jones Index - nothing special here anybody could have done it - it was a clear inverted Head and shoulders bottom pattern if you are into technical analysis. And I also predicted correctly the crash of the Dow Jones in 2007 - again it was a clear Head and Shoulders Top pattern.
I did make money but then due to my inexperience gave it all back to the market again.
The only time I made 500,000 pounds! yes that is correct was when I purchased about 6 company's penny shares for 10,000 (about 2k on each). Three years later they were worth 500,000 and guess what.....
yes I sold then a couple of months after because I saw an advert earn £400 / day spread betting.
So that was doing nothing for three years and collecting the cash!
I will leave it up to you to judge which is better.
The problem with spread betting is leverage - you can quickly become heavily over exposed if the market goes against you.
The trading course I attending in the City (I menetioned earlier) said expect to start making money after 1 year! ie if you were successful on the 4 week course you would get a job using their money. however you had to support yourself ie living costs and pay for your trading desk fees.
Unfortunately I had not the money to support myself for the year as I had run out.
I believe that 400/day is quite feasible. The liquidity in the financial markets is virtually limitless, so if you have an edge, and if you can exploit it consistently and with discipline, then you can earn whatever you want.
Incidentally, I would say that the reason Adam Heathcote earns 'only' 2K per day is because of the limited liquidity on Betfair. But as more money is traded in the currency markets in a day than goes into the NHS in a year, liquidity is less likely to be a problem there...
Jeff
Incidentally, I would say that the reason Adam Heathcote earns 'only' 2K per day is because of the limited liquidity on Betfair. But as more money is traded in the currency markets in a day than goes into the NHS in a year, liquidity is less likely to be a problem there...
Jeff
ba1000 wrote:Hi Ferru123 thanks for the response
"BTW, I believe that these figures of 400-500 pounds per WEEK"
I do not know if this was just a typo and your behalf but I was asking about 400 / DAY?
So what does 400/day mean in horse racing terms.
(Apologies in advance I'm stating the obvious and if this is doen else where on the forum or if i've sone my calculations incorrectly.)
If we assume 20 races per day just for the purposes of discussion that means trying to achieve £20 per race. and again bare in mind these are averages I'm talking about because we will not be right all the time. Although one horsing racing tutorial I watched did state that in order to succeed "just dont be wrong" - excellent advice I thought summed it up quite nicely.
If you have not calculated the green up money per tick per stake this is useful to do on a spreadsheet. Use BetAngel to check the numbers if you are unsure.
For decimal odds of a trade going from 4.1 to 4 for a £100 stake the value of a greened up tick is £2.5.
(It is worth noting going from 4 to 3.95 for a £100 stake this drops to £1.27!)
This means for our £20 profit target we need to make 8 ticks. Quite a big ask if you are struggling to make 1 tick per race consistantly. As a any wannabe trader I would suggest for the first few months trying to make 1 tick per race at a stake of £2.
Some more examples taken from our spreadsheet (PT = profit target):
3.05 to 3 = £1.67 greened up tick = 12 ticks for PT
2.02 to 2 = £0.99 greened up tick = 20 ticks for PT
1.51 to 1.5 = £0.67 greened up tick = 30 ticks for PT
So meeting our profit target definitely gets more difficult as the odds steam in.
If i change my stake to £1000 we get the following:
4.1 to 4 = £25 greened up tick = 1 tick for PT
3.05 to 3 = £16.67 greened up tick = 2 ticks for PT
2.02 to 2 = £10 greened up tick = 2 ticks for PT
1.51 to 1.5 = £6.67 greened up tick = 3 ticks for PT
So to be professional we either need to be able to get a lot ticks per race or use large stakes. Is there enough liquidity in the market to get matched? I struggle getting £2 matched at times before the market goes against me. If there is not then you are exposing yourself to large risk at large stakes.
Is this a correct understanding is my maths right? What do others thing?
(Apologies in advance I'm stating the obvious and if this is doen else where on the forum or if i've sone my calculations incorrectly.)
If we assume 20 races per day just for the purposes of discussion that means trying to achieve £20 per race. and again bare in mind these are averages I'm talking about because we will not be right all the time. Although one horsing racing tutorial I watched did state that in order to succeed "just dont be wrong" - excellent advice I thought summed it up quite nicely.
If you have not calculated the green up money per tick per stake this is useful to do on a spreadsheet. Use BetAngel to check the numbers if you are unsure.
For decimal odds of a trade going from 4.1 to 4 for a £100 stake the value of a greened up tick is £2.5.
(It is worth noting going from 4 to 3.95 for a £100 stake this drops to £1.27!)
This means for our £20 profit target we need to make 8 ticks. Quite a big ask if you are struggling to make 1 tick per race consistantly. As a any wannabe trader I would suggest for the first few months trying to make 1 tick per race at a stake of £2.
Some more examples taken from our spreadsheet (PT = profit target):
3.05 to 3 = £1.67 greened up tick = 12 ticks for PT
2.02 to 2 = £0.99 greened up tick = 20 ticks for PT
1.51 to 1.5 = £0.67 greened up tick = 30 ticks for PT
So meeting our profit target definitely gets more difficult as the odds steam in.
If i change my stake to £1000 we get the following:
4.1 to 4 = £25 greened up tick = 1 tick for PT
3.05 to 3 = £16.67 greened up tick = 2 ticks for PT
2.02 to 2 = £10 greened up tick = 2 ticks for PT
1.51 to 1.5 = £6.67 greened up tick = 3 ticks for PT
So to be professional we either need to be able to get a lot ticks per race or use large stakes. Is there enough liquidity in the market to get matched? I struggle getting £2 matched at times before the market goes against me. If there is not then you are exposing yourself to large risk at large stakes.
Is this a correct understanding is my maths right? What do others thing?
Ba1000
Adam Heathcote's turnover figures might give you some idea of the volume of trading required to make serious money per day:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EmNMGa10fIc/S ... /p%26l.jpg
Jeff
Adam Heathcote's turnover figures might give you some idea of the volume of trading required to make serious money per day:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EmNMGa10fIc/S ... /p%26l.jpg
Jeff
ba1000 wrote:So what does 400/day mean in horse racing terms.
Hi Bilko
Yes, I do.
Firstly, I believe that Adam's claimed profits are genuine. There is plenty of debate in other forums about this, so I won't rehash old arguments, or risk starting a flame war here!
Secondly, I believe Peter Webb's turnover over a year is 9 or 10 naughts long, so I have no reason to doubt Adam's turnover figures.
Jeff
Yes, I do.
Firstly, I believe that Adam's claimed profits are genuine. There is plenty of debate in other forums about this, so I won't rehash old arguments, or risk starting a flame war here!
Secondly, I believe Peter Webb's turnover over a year is 9 or 10 naughts long, so I have no reason to doubt Adam's turnover figures.
Jeff
bilko wrote:Ferru123
Do you believe those figures??
If I knew that I wouldn't be still trading betfair!! Its not unrealistic though to be able to trade with $10k per tick as long as you had sufficient margin in your account to cover 1000 contracts (~$500k) depending on exactly what you are trading.
I know Adam is not Peter.
I haven't seen either Adam or Peter trade. However, if we assume for argument's sake that Adam really does make 2K per day, then his turnover figures aren't suspect IMHO.
As for whether Adam does earn 2K per day, I believe he does - for a number of reasons. But, as I said, I'm not going to rehash arguments covered in detail in a forum relating to a rival product.
Jeff
I haven't seen either Adam or Peter trade. However, if we assume for argument's sake that Adam really does make 2K per day, then his turnover figures aren't suspect IMHO.
As for whether Adam does earn 2K per day, I believe he does - for a number of reasons. But, as I said, I'm not going to rehash arguments covered in detail in a forum relating to a rival product.
Jeff
bilko wrote:Adam is not Peter and you did say Adam.
Have you seen Adam trade?