Getting lay bets matched as price drifts

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ija34
Posts: 92
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:06 pm
....an example of an analysis-free strategy (pdf link top right). And one that hightlights the problem with bookies again too in it's conclusion.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.02824

But to summarise that paper and relate it to the exchange, plug-in your bookie price feed (or maybe 100+ bookies from someone like https://www.lsports.eu/oddservice/), average it, add a margin, offer on the exchange. Let's face it, your analysis won't be better than their combined wisdom.
It looks like a good read that and may be able to apply it to my current strategy. The reason I have it set to 3 ticks above is simply a safety feature of getting matched. At my lower stakes I'm currently using, it isn't a problem because it gets matched at the current price regardless but when my stakes increase it may get matched a few ticks above what I want so it's at that point I'd need to decide whether I want to use lower stakes or take a worse price, I'd have to make a decision on which returns higher profits.

Been researching value betting most of the day so understand how it works and how to find them but no idea how you would automate it. It basically just tells you to take the average odds from as many bookmakers as possible, divide this number into 100 to give the % chance of winning so since we bet on the exchange, we would take the average odds of bookmakers say it comes out at 2 so 100/2 = 50% probability and then the exchange is giving us odds at 2.2 then this would be a value bet but it's a lot of work doing it manually.
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ShaunWhite
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ija34 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:54 pm
Been researching value betting most of the day so understand how it works
A general awareness will stop you doing stupid things. But obviously you aren't going to be developing a pricing model anytime soon, if you wanted to do that you'd need historic price and fundamental data and the ability to do something with it.
ija34
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:51 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:09 pm
ija34 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:54 pm
Been researching value betting most of the day so understand how it works
A general awareness will stop you doing stupid things. But obviously you aren't going to be developing a pricing model anytime soon, if you wanted to do that you'd need historic price and fundamental data and the ability to do something with it.
Just a thought, would it not be possible to develop a script on AutoIt that can analyse inplay odds on Oddschecker (or pre-race for horse racing), send the data to a spreadsheet every 30 seconds then import this data to Bet Angel. From this, you can then calculate implied chance of winning and work out if the odds hold estimated value and then place a bet if the results comply with your model? There must be 1000s of opportunities for value when inplay but too time consuming to find them manually.
Anbell
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ija34 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:24 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:09 pm
ija34 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:54 pm
Been researching value betting most of the day so understand how it works
A general awareness will stop you doing stupid things. But obviously you aren't going to be developing a pricing model anytime soon, if you wanted to do that you'd need historic price and fundamental data and the ability to do something with it.
Just a thought, would it not be possible to develop a script on AutoIt that can analyse inplay odds on Oddschecker (or pre-race for horse racing), send the data to a spreadsheet every 30 seconds then import this data to Bet Angel. From this, you can then calculate implied chance of winning and work out if the odds hold estimated value and then place a bet if the results comply with your model? There must be 1000s of opportunities for value when inplay but too time consuming to find them manually.
Oddschecker prices will nearly always be worse than betfair's prices
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ShaunWhite
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ija34 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:24 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:09 pm
ija34 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:54 pm
Been researching value betting most of the day so understand how it works
A general awareness will stop you doing stupid things. But obviously you aren't going to be developing a pricing model anytime soon, if you wanted to do that you'd need historic price and fundamental data and the ability to do something with it.
Just a thought, would it not be possible to develop a script on AutoIt that can analyse inplay odds on Oddschecker (or pre-race for horse racing), send the data to a spreadsheet every 30 seconds then import this data to Bet Angel. From this, you can then calculate implied chance of winning and work out if the odds hold estimated value and then place a bet if the results comply with your model? There must be 1000s of opportunities for value when inplay but too time consuming to find them manually.
You wouldn't take in-running odds from bookies you'd derive your own, and you'd use TPD. Doing it manually would be impossible, for a start 30s is a lifetime and 30ms would be nearer to acceptable. Odds checker would be a pain to use because they don't have an api.
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ShaunWhite
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... It sounds like you're starting to get some idea of the wide range of approaches people have, and it's time to focus on something. First would be manual or automation and given your inexperience manual trading would be the best start to gain a better understanding and generate some original ideas. Automation would be a big commitment given you're starting from scratch, and probably don't want your first bets to be months way.

Just bear in mind this is an industry not a video game. 100s of people do this full-time and have done for 10 or 20 years. It's difficult to find a niche and be in the small percentage who make anything. You shouldn't underestimate their experience, skills and tenacity and how much time and effort this will require of you. Markets can only yield a given amount of profit so for you to get any you'll need to take it from someone else.

Here's another link that will help. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning ... ger_effect
ija34
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:51 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:14 am
... It sounds like you're starting to get some idea of the wide range of approaches people have, and it's time to focus on something. First would be manual or automation and given your inexperience manual trading would be the best start to gain a better understanding and generate some original ideas. Automation would be a big commitment given you're starting from scratch, and probably don't want your first bets to be months way.

Just bear in mind this is an industry not a video game. 100s of people do this full-time and have done for 10 or 20 years. It's difficult to find a niche and be in the small percentage who make anything. You shouldn't underestimate their experience, skills and tenacity and how much time and effort this will require of you. Markets can only yield a given amount of profit so for you to get any you'll need to take it from someone else.

Here's another link that will help. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning ... ger_effect
I know that I want to trade football due to the huge liquidity on there plus I have a better knowledge of football and it would be preferable to be automated since I have a full time job and a baby on the way so time is limited. I've done manual trading on football before mainly trading the time decay or lay the draw but obviously manual trading barely gets you a profit since you may only get 1 trade a day while working full time. Betting on value sounds interesting and would want to test a system like this over a year and see if it works but not sure how I come up with a method to find value.
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ShaunWhite
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ija34 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:30 am
but not sure how I come up with a method to find value.
You do what most of us do with our chosen niche, you spend years and years being completely obsessed to the exclusion of everything else for every waking minute. :) The percentage of people who succeed means that in a room full of 100 people you need to be more committed than 94 of them.

You can't just buy a pencil and become an architect anymore than buying BA means you'll be a trader. Just stay realistic about your chances.
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ShaunWhite
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.... Just out of curiosity, what odds do you put on your own success? What would be the right price?
ija34
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:43 am
.... Just out of curiosity, what odds do you put on your own success? What would be the right price?
Not sure I fully understand the question but as of right now, constantly changing ideas I'd say my odds are at 1000 :lol: although my account is in profit so I can't be the worst trader/bettor.
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ShaunWhite
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ija34 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:50 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:43 am
.... Just out of curiosity, what odds do you put on your own success? What would be the right price?
Not sure I fully understand the question but as of right now, constantly changing ideas I'd say my odds are at 1000 :lol: although my account is in profit so I can't be the worst trader/bettor.
The question was just what it was, being up is a good start but doing it long term is tricky.

I was just trying to think about your direct competition....
Apart from dozens on here...
Tony Bloom (Star Lizard)
Psychoff
Mo
Daniel Lighting (Castella Research)
Kai

I'm not trying to put you off, just keeping it real.

This was an interesting comment I saw about the staff at Star Lizard.. "No one will talk about what goes on there. They are not allowed to have a betting account. They are not allowed to have a Twitter account' :)
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html
ija34
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:51 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:14 pm

Not being funny but no one could put me off if they tried :lol: I'm too dedicated to it because I'm confident I will succeed eventually. I've been using Betfair for around 2 years now, give or take. Only became profitable in the last 6 months so I won back all that I lost learning and then some. The strategies I used though were profitable short-term so now I'm looking for long-term solutions hence why I'm more active on here now.
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Kai
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:14 pm
I was just trying to think about your direct competition....
Apart from dozens on here...
Tony Bloom (Star Lizard)
Psychoff
Mo
Daniel Lighting (Castella Research)
Kai
Not sure what that last guy is doing on a list with Premier League club owners but all you need to beat him is slightly faster pictures :lol:
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ShaunWhite
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Kai wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:24 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:14 pm
I was just trying to think about your direct competition....
Apart from dozens on here...
Kai
Not sure what that last guy is doing on a list with Premier League club owners but all you need to beat him is slightly faster pictures :lol:
It's all relative. You're no match for Tony, but the new guy is no match for you ;)
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Bobajob
Posts: 184
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:14 pm
ija34 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:50 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:43 am
.... Just out of curiosity, what odds do you put on your own success? What would be the right price?
Not sure I fully understand the question but as of right now, constantly changing ideas I'd say my odds are at 1000 :lol: although my account is in profit so I can't be the worst trader/bettor.
The question was just what it was, being up is a good start but doing it long term is tricky.

I was just trying to think about your direct competition....
Apart from dozens on here...
Tony Bloom (Star Lizard)
Psychoff
Mo
Daniel Lighting (Castella Research)
Kai

I'm not trying to put you off, just keeping it real.

This was an interesting comment I saw about the staff at Star Lizard.. "No one will talk about what goes on there. They are not allowed to have a betting account. They are not allowed to have a Twitter account' :)
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html

"The sums are huge. To earn the average annual UK salary of £26,500, one would need a bankroll of around £150,000. That is because the best most punters can hope for is a return of investment between 3-4 percent".

What's the best ROI you can expect from trading ?
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